6 ms·

Moving to it’s own chips may be fine and all, but I’d much prefer Apple to deal with the rotting quality of its OSes first.

pjmlp 6y ago
They will do it via iOS Core™️.
ljm 6y ago
It does say something that even with some of its flaws (i.e. ads, telemetry, patchwork leftover UI from over the years) I vastly prefer working on Windows for most things these days, especially with WSL and the new terminal in the mix.
- JoelTheSuperior 6y ago
  Indeed - I was a pretty heavy Mac user for years but I genuinely find that Windows gives me less grief lately.
- steeleduncan 6y ago
  WSL and the new terminal pushed the balance in windows favour for me too. The value proposition of OSX 10.2 when I switched to a Mac was a clean, elegant UI with that unix terminal for developer tasks. The Windows 10 UI is good, and these days the *nix of real interest is Linux, so the WSL handles that side, so for the same logic, I've moved back in the Windows direction.
- eknkc 6y ago
  I've been developing on macs for 10+ years. Recently got myself a Windows desktop for testing stuff, gaming etc. It turned into my main development machine thanks to WSL2. Everything works better / more stable and this is extremely ironic given that I switched to mac a decade ago for the same reason. Also I have many more hardware options (which is overwhelming) Meanwhile, my MacBook Pro 16" has daily kernel panics when it is connected to an external display. It has been reported by many people on Macrumors forums and has been happening for months now. No fix...
  - josephg 6y ago
    Has performance improved in wsl? I was playing around with it a few months ago and filesystem-intensive operations (like running npm install) were horrendously slow. Has that changed with wsl2? I’ve been considering picking up a ryzen laptop and running Linux on it, and trying that out as a daily driver. But I don’t have any patience these days for the hacky wifi driver installation dance. And I’m nervous after having a Linux laptop cook it’s own battery when it failed to sleep properly in my backpack. It’s been a couple decades - do Linux laptops just work yet?
    - eknkc 6y ago
      I tried WSL a year ago. Filesystem was slow and it was slow everywhere. WSL2 improves that by offering fast fs on linux side. The boundary is still slow. For example, if you go into /mnt/c and use git status on a large repo it will need to go through the boundary. It is slow (not painful but not pleasant) My current setup has all my source code on the linux fs (/home/user) and I access them using VSCode remote extensions. The performance is fine. I can't really tell if native macos experience or this is faster. I also tried JB iDEA. It works across the filesystem boundary and even if the access is slow, it does not reflect to real world usage much. But you'll feel it if you look for it. Another option is to run GUI apps on Linux side and use an X11 server on Windows. This just works fine and they recently announced that the WSL will have built in support for Linux GUI apps.
    - Maakuth 6y ago
      Yes indeed. WSL 2 launched a few weeks ago with the latest Windows 10 version, and it has different sort of filesystem setup. WSL 1 had a Linux-like view of some subdirectory of the host NTFS filesystem, so all the fs IO went through Windows kernel. In WSL 2, there's an ext4 image instead, so filesystem access is essentially as fast as with any Linux system in a virtual machine.
    - RealStickman_ 6y ago
      Make sure to check how well supported your wifi card is. If you try something like Ubuntu drivers generally should be less of a problem. Though you may have to upgrade to the 5.7 kernel for better support of the cpu. I rarely sleep my laptop so I can't tell you anything about that, but general usage on my hp laptop (i5 7200u, intel igpu and intel wifi) has been working fine for me the last six months with Arcolinux on it.
MatthiasP 6y ago
There is a good chance that macOS is being neglected precisely because Apple is moving away from x86.
- robbyt 6y ago
  iOS has also been buggy
  - PostThisTooFast 6y ago
    Safari on iOS is nearly unusable. POOF! It’s gone!
- bredren 6y ago
  Fwiw, Apple had been building OS X on x86 for five years prior to announce of the last shift. https://youtu.be/ghdTqnYnFyg https://youtu.be/ghdTqnYnFyg Not sure how this impacts theory of neglect. Is it correct that the best folks from any given team at Apple are assigned to new, big initiatives?
- michelb 6y ago
  Unlikely. I think they are just spread very thin, internal communications between groups is still broken, the dev process is/was broken (but is supposedly being fixed), and departments probably still don't cooperate. Priorities lie with features that sell the eco-system, not fixing bugs.
  - sukilot 6y ago
    And because they hoard profit instead of hiring more QA staff.
    - GloriousKoji 6y ago
      From personal anecdote I find that it's just poor culture which prevents qualified people from getting hired. Even with tons of reqs open, no one new as added to the staff.
pjscott 6y ago
There's not that much overlap between the sets of people who'd be able to work on those two things.

pjmlp 6y ago

They will do it via iOS Core™️.

ljm 6y ago

It does say something that even with some of its flaws (i.e. ads, telemetry, patchwork leftover UI from over the years) I vastly prefer working on Windows for most things these days, especially with WSL and the new terminal in the mix.

JoelTheSuperior 6y ago
Indeed - I was a pretty heavy Mac user for years but I genuinely find that Windows gives me less grief lately.
steeleduncan 6y ago
WSL and the new terminal pushed the balance in windows favour for me too. The value proposition of OSX 10.2 when I switched to a Mac was a clean, elegant UI with that unix terminal for developer tasks. The Windows 10 UI is good, and these days the *nix of real interest is Linux, so the WSL handles that side, so for the same logic, I've moved back in the Windows direction.
eknkc 6y ago
I've been developing on macs for 10+ years. Recently got myself a Windows desktop for testing stuff, gaming etc. It turned into my main development machine thanks to WSL2. Everything works better / more stable and this is extremely ironic given that I switched to mac a decade ago for the same reason. Also I have many more hardware options (which is overwhelming) Meanwhile, my MacBook Pro 16" has daily kernel panics when it is connected to an external display. It has been reported by many people on Macrumors forums and has been happening for months now. No fix...
- josephg 6y ago
  Has performance improved in wsl? I was playing around with it a few months ago and filesystem-intensive operations (like running npm install) were horrendously slow. Has that changed with wsl2? I’ve been considering picking up a ryzen laptop and running Linux on it, and trying that out as a daily driver. But I don’t have any patience these days for the hacky wifi driver installation dance. And I’m nervous after having a Linux laptop cook it’s own battery when it failed to sleep properly in my backpack. It’s been a couple decades - do Linux laptops just work yet?
  - eknkc 6y ago
    I tried WSL a year ago. Filesystem was slow and it was slow everywhere. WSL2 improves that by offering fast fs on linux side. The boundary is still slow. For example, if you go into /mnt/c and use git status on a large repo it will need to go through the boundary. It is slow (not painful but not pleasant) My current setup has all my source code on the linux fs (/home/user) and I access them using VSCode remote extensions. The performance is fine. I can't really tell if native macos experience or this is faster. I also tried JB iDEA. It works across the filesystem boundary and even if the access is slow, it does not reflect to real world usage much. But you'll feel it if you look for it. Another option is to run GUI apps on Linux side and use an X11 server on Windows. This just works fine and they recently announced that the WSL will have built in support for Linux GUI apps.
  - Maakuth 6y ago
    Yes indeed. WSL 2 launched a few weeks ago with the latest Windows 10 version, and it has different sort of filesystem setup. WSL 1 had a Linux-like view of some subdirectory of the host NTFS filesystem, so all the fs IO went through Windows kernel. In WSL 2, there's an ext4 image instead, so filesystem access is essentially as fast as with any Linux system in a virtual machine.
  - RealStickman_ 6y ago
    Make sure to check how well supported your wifi card is. If you try something like Ubuntu drivers generally should be less of a problem. Though you may have to upgrade to the 5.7 kernel for better support of the cpu. I rarely sleep my laptop so I can't tell you anything about that, but general usage on my hp laptop (i5 7200u, intel igpu and intel wifi) has been working fine for me the last six months with Arcolinux on it.

MatthiasP 6y ago

There is a good chance that macOS is being neglected precisely because Apple is moving away from x86.

robbyt 6y ago
iOS has also been buggy
- PostThisTooFast 6y ago
  Safari on iOS is nearly unusable. POOF! It’s gone!
bredren 6y ago
Fwiw, Apple had been building OS X on x86 for five years prior to announce of the last shift. https://youtu.be/ghdTqnYnFyg https://youtu.be/ghdTqnYnFyg Not sure how this impacts theory of neglect. Is it correct that the best folks from any given team at Apple are assigned to new, big initiatives?
michelb 6y ago
Unlikely. I think they are just spread very thin, internal communications between groups is still broken, the dev process is/was broken (but is supposedly being fixed), and departments probably still don't cooperate. Priorities lie with features that sell the eco-system, not fixing bugs.
- sukilot 6y ago
  And because they hoard profit instead of hiring more QA staff.
  - GloriousKoji 6y ago
    From personal anecdote I find that it's just poor culture which prevents qualified people from getting hired. Even with tons of reqs open, no one new as added to the staff.

pjscott 6y ago

There's not that much overlap between the sets of people who'd be able to work on those two things.