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The perception seems to be that unions hurt well performing employees more than they help. Non-competes are perceived as hurting well performing employees. Why

The perception seems to be that unions hurt well performing employees more than they help. Non-competes are perceived as hurting well performing employees. Why is it surprising that the same group, which perceives itself as well performing employees, would oppose both?

gxon 6y ago
It's interesting how many successful, creative people seem to be incapable at imagining themselves not being so successful one day. What you perform well at today won't necessarily be valuable in the future.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  Most people don't find it reasonable to sabotage yourself based on the belief that things could be and probably will be worse some day. If some people do, then they inherently tend to get marginalized. My dad was an engineer who I was told tried to organize a vote to form a union at GE pre-Jack Welch. It failed, but was close. Probably over 30 years after he died it occurred to me that might have something to do with why he retired early. I always figured any company that has a union deserves it - but that doesn't mean I want to be a part of a company where management and labor has that bad of a relationship. Now I belong to a public sector union - and everybody hates those - so I tend to take a nuanced perspective, but there are some mundane drawbacks. For instance, before covid, work-from-home was pretty restricted, and because the exact amount and rules were in the contract, it wasn't easy to change.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  So you're advocating for a union that pays a premium for those employees who have seniority but whose skills are no longer in much demand? At the cost of salary for those whose skills have remained in demand or who have kept up to date with trends? After all, otherwise what advantage does a a union have in your scenario? I doubt many well performing SEs would be happy to have coworkers like that in the future. The ones worried about future marketability have many options including saving a lager percentage of income, investing money in passive income sources, moving into management, etc.
snowwrestler 6y ago
It really depends on which unions you look at. When people hear "union," they think of Teamsters and autoworkers and elementary school teachers. But Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, Lebron James, and Tom Brady are all examples of union members too.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  What a software engineer union would be like depends on who you ask. Thus the risk as no one agrees and thus the result would be a crap shoot. Worse, it'd become a political situation so even if it starts aiming for A the movement may be hijacked to cause B. For example, many people mention preventing things such as unexpected PIPs and firings which sounds a lot more like teamsters than a guild.
- mrep 6y ago
  Those unions aren't specific to one company/team though and are mainly to set pay floors because they work in a glamorous industry that people are desperate to get into and so they are used to raise the people outside of the competitive spotlight pay in the industry. If you want to start an non-company specific union for developers, by all means, start one but I see no reason to join it considering the only reason people are desperate to be developers is because it pays well.

gxon 6y ago

It's interesting how many successful, creative people seem to be incapable at imagining themselves not being so successful one day. What you perform well at today won't necessarily be valuable in the future.

perl4ever 6y ago
Most people don't find it reasonable to sabotage yourself based on the belief that things could be and probably will be worse some day. If some people do, then they inherently tend to get marginalized. My dad was an engineer who I was told tried to organize a vote to form a union at GE pre-Jack Welch. It failed, but was close. Probably over 30 years after he died it occurred to me that might have something to do with why he retired early. I always figured any company that has a union deserves it - but that doesn't mean I want to be a part of a company where management and labor has that bad of a relationship. Now I belong to a public sector union - and everybody hates those - so I tend to take a nuanced perspective, but there are some mundane drawbacks. For instance, before covid, work-from-home was pretty restricted, and because the exact amount and rules were in the contract, it wasn't easy to change.
marcinzm 6y ago
So you're advocating for a union that pays a premium for those employees who have seniority but whose skills are no longer in much demand? At the cost of salary for those whose skills have remained in demand or who have kept up to date with trends? After all, otherwise what advantage does a a union have in your scenario? I doubt many well performing SEs would be happy to have coworkers like that in the future. The ones worried about future marketability have many options including saving a lager percentage of income, investing money in passive income sources, moving into management, etc.

snowwrestler 6y ago

It really depends on which unions you look at. When people hear "union," they think of Teamsters and autoworkers and elementary school teachers. But Steven Spielberg, Tom Cruise, Lebron James, and Tom Brady are all examples of union members too.

marcinzm 6y ago
What a software engineer union would be like depends on who you ask. Thus the risk as no one agrees and thus the result would be a crap shoot. Worse, it'd become a political situation so even if it starts aiming for A the movement may be hijacked to cause B. For example, many people mention preventing things such as unexpected PIPs and firings which sounds a lot more like teamsters than a guild.
mrep 6y ago
Those unions aren't specific to one company/team though and are mainly to set pay floors because they work in a glamorous industry that people are desperate to get into and so they are used to raise the people outside of the competitive spotlight pay in the industry. If you want to start an non-company specific union for developers, by all means, start one but I see no reason to join it considering the only reason people are desperate to be developers is because it pays well.