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I use lemonade for my renters insurance, since it’s cheaper than the alternatives. I have to say their UX is a classic example of form over function. - To buy

I use lemonade for my renters insurance, since it’s cheaper than the alternatives. I have to say their UX is a classic example of form over function. - To buy and manage a policy, you have to install their mobile app. They have a website, but to do anything substantial they redirect you to the app. - I canceled the credit card I use for the premium. To update the credit card, I have to use the virtual chat bot, which comes with fake “typing…” indicator. I bet these fancy UX cost them a lot of money, but literally made the experience worse.

johnbellone 6y ago
I was able to quote and finish two homeowner's policies without downloading and installing the application. It was a great experience. The only issue was modifying the policy prior to it being accepted by mortgage servicer (part of escrow).
tootie 6y ago
Those kind of patterns sound like they are business-motivated and not form over function. Look at sites like Facebook or Reddit that are perfectly suited to mobile web but aggressively push users to apps. Apps make for a walled-in experience and more engagement. And they let companies push more and more features you didn't ask for.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  For a site like Facebook and Reddit that most users use daily, sure, but how often do you want to engage with your insurance company?
- koolba 6y ago
  Facebook wants you to use the app so that they can deliver an all encompassing ecosystem. It’s a gateway to more functionality ina controlled environment. Reddit just wants you see ads. The percentage of Reddit users that block ads must be astronomical.
- godzillabrennus 6y ago
  You are talking about two of the most powerful sentiment analysis engines ever built. Facebook try’s to tie sentiments to a reasonably verified identity while reddit adopted a less sophisticated wild Wild West approach. Facebook is winning that war. Knowing people so you can sell ads at an auction to them is what makes you rich.
- troughway 6y ago
  That and there isn't really a universal adblocker for mobile yet, so there is no way to get around them shoving poorly targeted ads in your face relentlessly.
- cookiecaper 6y ago
  Yeah, it's hard to imagine why it would make business sense not to push app installs as hard as possible. Take a look at logcat once in a while and notice how often apps you haven't used in weeks are still phoning home sending who-knows-what, not to mention occasional attempts at "re-engagement" from push notifications and much more. It's no good for consumers, but I don't think many investors would be happy to hear that a company is just leaving those data and opportunities on the table.
michaelmior 6y ago
The worst for me was when I needed an overlap between my old and new policies, I was told I needed to open a second account with a different email.
- JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
  Being scrappy and avoiding anything other than happy path allows businesses to grow faster.
  - michaelmior 6y ago
    This is true and it probably was a reasonable decision on their part since my case was certainly not the common one.
    - detaro 6y ago
      And hey, it means higher reported signup numbers!
- Reebz 6y ago
  I did this recently as I moved apartments, I think you were given incorrect info. You can easily open multiple policies under the 1 account (e.g. your move out date is June 1 and your move in date is May 15).
iscrewyou 6y ago
I disagree. It was the easiest ease of mind purchase I've ever made. They tell showed me what it covers, what it can cover with add-ons and the price updated in a click. I had to talk to no one. It started the next day with the contract sitting for me in my email. I don't think they could've done a better job solving a problem through software (an app). I tried cancelling it to make sure it will be easy. The steps seem super easy and straight forward all the way up to the confirm option.
PascLeRasc 6y ago
I'll take that over my policy I have now, where anything after 2 clicks on the website ends up with "We're not telling you that information unless you call us". I'll take some UX quirks if it means the old companies with no competition will die out faster. I'd even pay more for this. edit: I just found out that their policy framework is open-source on Github (https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0 https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0). That's huge to me. And they use regular English to explain everything with real examples like how they'd cover an Airbnb if you had a fire, and what a deductible is. Meanwhile I couldn't find my policy on State Farm's site and had to dig through Dropbox to see that the its line items are furs, silverware, and waterbed damage. What year is it?
- phonon 6y ago
  > I just found out that their policy framework is open-source on Github (https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0 https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0). That's huge to me. That's not their policy framework. They use the same standard policies everyone else does (created by a division of Verisk called ISO). It was their attempt to "show" they can design a "Plain English" policy. In reality, it had nowhere near the effort put into it that could plausibly allow that, and is not used by them in production in any way.
lgessler 6y ago
> which comes with fake “typing…” indicator. Being forced to use a chatbot sounds annoying, I agree, but for people who aren't like us on HN who are in the know, the typing indicator fulfills an important function: instant replies can be jarring to users and inhibit their ability to understand the interaction as chat. (There is some evidence to think this intuition is right, by the way: https://chatbotresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/icis2018_hci_workshop.pdf https://chatbotresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/icis2...) Let's not get into whether chatbots have done more harm than good, but I think we can agree that if we're going to have them at all we should do them right.
TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
Sounds terrible. I will only use the state-wide automobile insurer for all my insurance policies for all types or cover they offer that I need (vehicles, building, and home contents). Why? They have an outstanding reputation and physical offices in both cities in the states (Tasmania). Needing to make an insurance claim is almost always going to be a stressful event to some extent. Being able to walk in and talk to a real person if needed is something I’m willing to pay a premium (pun!) for. When it comes to insurance, for me, cheapest is not always best.
- cdmckay 6y ago
  It’s a public insurer?
  - TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
    Sorry, I’ve worded that wrong. It’s called the Royal Automobile Club is Tasmania, or RACT. Wonkypodgia does a better job of explaining it: The Royal Automobile Club of Tasmania normally abbreviated to RACT is a motoring club in Tasmania, Australia. The organisation was established in 1923 and now has over 191,000 members.[1] It is a member of the Australian Automobile Association. It provides services such as roadside assistance, vehicle, home and contents insurance, personal and car loans, driver's education, tourism services and home security products. In addition to consumer services, the club also engages in consumer advocacy, particularly in regard to petrol prices, which are both historically and recently higher than prices in other parts of Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Automobile_Club_of_Tasmania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Automobile_Club_of_Tasma... The Australian Automobile Association (AAA) was established in 1924. The AAA is the peak organisation for Australia's motoring clubs and their eight million members, and advances the interests of all road users across Australia to ensure land transport networks are safe and sustainable, and that the cost and access to transport is fair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Automobile_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Automobile_Associat...

johnbellone 6y ago

I was able to quote and finish two homeowner's policies without downloading and installing the application. It was a great experience. The only issue was modifying the policy prior to it being accepted by mortgage servicer (part of escrow).

tootie 6y ago

Those kind of patterns sound like they are business-motivated and not form over function. Look at sites like Facebook or Reddit that are perfectly suited to mobile web but aggressively push users to apps. Apps make for a walled-in experience and more engagement. And they let companies push more and more features you didn't ask for.

9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
For a site like Facebook and Reddit that most users use daily, sure, but how often do you want to engage with your insurance company?
koolba 6y ago
Facebook wants you to use the app so that they can deliver an all encompassing ecosystem. It’s a gateway to more functionality ina controlled environment. Reddit just wants you see ads. The percentage of Reddit users that block ads must be astronomical.
godzillabrennus 6y ago
You are talking about two of the most powerful sentiment analysis engines ever built. Facebook try’s to tie sentiments to a reasonably verified identity while reddit adopted a less sophisticated wild Wild West approach. Facebook is winning that war. Knowing people so you can sell ads at an auction to them is what makes you rich.
troughway 6y ago
That and there isn't really a universal adblocker for mobile yet, so there is no way to get around them shoving poorly targeted ads in your face relentlessly.
cookiecaper 6y ago
Yeah, it's hard to imagine why it would make business sense not to push app installs as hard as possible. Take a look at logcat once in a while and notice how often apps you haven't used in weeks are still phoning home sending who-knows-what, not to mention occasional attempts at "re-engagement" from push notifications and much more. It's no good for consumers, but I don't think many investors would be happy to hear that a company is just leaving those data and opportunities on the table.

michaelmior 6y ago

The worst for me was when I needed an overlap between my old and new policies, I was told I needed to open a second account with a different email.

JMTQp8lwXL 6y ago
Being scrappy and avoiding anything other than happy path allows businesses to grow faster.
- michaelmior 6y ago
  This is true and it probably was a reasonable decision on their part since my case was certainly not the common one.
  - detaro 6y ago
    And hey, it means higher reported signup numbers!
Reebz 6y ago
I did this recently as I moved apartments, I think you were given incorrect info. You can easily open multiple policies under the 1 account (e.g. your move out date is June 1 and your move in date is May 15).

iscrewyou 6y ago

I disagree. It was the easiest ease of mind purchase I've ever made. They tell showed me what it covers, what it can cover with add-ons and the price updated in a click. I had to talk to no one. It started the next day with the contract sitting for me in my email. I don't think they could've done a better job solving a problem through software (an app). I tried cancelling it to make sure it will be easy. The steps seem super easy and straight forward all the way up to the confirm option.

PascLeRasc 6y ago

I'll take that over my policy I have now, where anything after 2 clicks on the website ends up with "We're not telling you that information unless you call us". I'll take some UX quirks if it means the old companies with no competition will die out faster. I'd even pay more for this. edit: I just found out that their policy framework is open-source on Github (https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0 https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0). That's huge to me. And they use regular English to explain everything with real examples like how they'd cover an Airbnb if you had a fire, and what a deductible is. Meanwhile I couldn't find my policy on State Farm's site and had to dig through Dropbox to see that the its line items are furs, silverware, and waterbed damage. What year is it?

phonon 6y ago
> I just found out that their policy framework is open-source on Github (https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0 https://github.com/lemonade-hq/policy-2.0). That's huge to me. That's not their policy framework. They use the same standard policies everyone else does (created by a division of Verisk called ISO). It was their attempt to "show" they can design a "Plain English" policy. In reality, it had nowhere near the effort put into it that could plausibly allow that, and is not used by them in production in any way.

lgessler 6y ago

> which comes with fake “typing…” indicator. Being forced to use a chatbot sounds annoying, I agree, but for people who aren't like us on HN who are in the know, the typing indicator fulfills an important function: instant replies can be jarring to users and inhibit their ability to understand the interaction as chat. (There is some evidence to think this intuition is right, by the way: https://chatbotresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/icis2018_hci_workshop.pdf https://chatbotresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/icis2...) Let's not get into whether chatbots have done more harm than good, but I think we can agree that if we're going to have them at all we should do them right.

TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago

Sounds terrible. I will only use the state-wide automobile insurer for all my insurance policies for all types or cover they offer that I need (vehicles, building, and home contents). Why? They have an outstanding reputation and physical offices in both cities in the states (Tasmania). Needing to make an insurance claim is almost always going to be a stressful event to some extent. Being able to walk in and talk to a real person if needed is something I’m willing to pay a premium (pun!) for. When it comes to insurance, for me, cheapest is not always best.

cdmckay 6y ago
It’s a public insurer?
- TheSpiceIsLife 6y ago
  Sorry, I’ve worded that wrong. It’s called the Royal Automobile Club is Tasmania, or RACT. Wonkypodgia does a better job of explaining it: The Royal Automobile Club of Tasmania normally abbreviated to RACT is a motoring club in Tasmania, Australia. The organisation was established in 1923 and now has over 191,000 members.[1] It is a member of the Australian Automobile Association. It provides services such as roadside assistance, vehicle, home and contents insurance, personal and car loans, driver's education, tourism services and home security products. In addition to consumer services, the club also engages in consumer advocacy, particularly in regard to petrol prices, which are both historically and recently higher than prices in other parts of Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Automobile_Club_of_Tasmania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Automobile_Club_of_Tasma... The Australian Automobile Association (AAA) was established in 1924. The AAA is the peak organisation for Australia's motoring clubs and their eight million members, and advances the interests of all road users across Australia to ensure land transport networks are safe and sustainable, and that the cost and access to transport is fair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Automobile_Association https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Automobile_Associat...