4 ms·

Rant. Myers-Briggs is one of the dumbest things in psychology. Psychologists, who generally accept the stupidest theories generally admit it's useless, and Big

by wisty 16y ago

Rant. Myers-Briggs is one of the dumbest things in psychology. Psychologists, who generally accept the stupidest theories generally admit it's useless, and Big-5 is much better. It's only popular because it's so value-free - nobody gets offended by any of it's factors (except introversion-extroversion: the only useful one). Introversion-Extroversion is the only factor that is really a big factor. There other MB factors - (Sensing (S) - (N) Intuition, Thinking (T) - (F) Feeling, and Judgment (J) - (P) Perception) are so meaningless nobody even remembers them. The other big 5 factors (Openness to experience, Conscientiousness, Agreeableness, and Neuroticism) are much better descriptors of people. Are you interested in stuff? Openness ++. Do your homework on time? Conscientiousness ++. Say "yes" too much? Agreeableness ++. Crazy? Neuroticism ++. Honesty, intelligence, and empathy could be added; but they are a little prickly to measure. But Big 5 is still fairly descriptive of most people. Personality traits are (roughly speaking) normally distributed. It's stupid to classify people as "extroverts or introverts", as most people are basically just "meh". Sure, there's the geek who never speaks, and the cheerleader, but most people just talk with a few friends, and feel a bit sick when they have to talk to strangers. The dichotomy that's implied by using two classifiers ("extrovert / introvert"), rather than just scoring "extroversion" on a scale of (say) 1-10 is just brain-dead. "Introversion does not describe social discomfort but rather social preference". I like reading books, but in high school I could talk to anyone except a hot girl. Now, I guess I would prefer to read than make "connections", but that doesn't totally disqualify me for having a job that requires a lot of communication. Of course, I'm quite good at jobs that require a bit of thinking, and enjoy them more. So, um, I guess I won't be selling Avon any time soon. My loss, I guess. And who says introverts aren't successful? I would pick Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Larry Page, Allan Greenspan (yeah, he caused the crisis, but virtually no-one else new better), David Letterman, and quite a few other successful people as un-extroverted people. Possibly Barack Obama, and quite a few other presidents too (but I know next to nothing of US history). Maybe Bob Dylan. Possibly John Lennon. Not Ringo though. Having "social skills" can be important. But not all extroverts have them (think - the bully, Mr. Foot-in-mouth, and the guy who just won't shut up), and most introverts have adequate social skills. Most people do.

Luyt 16y ago
Brian Dunning wrote a critical article on the Myers-Briggs Personality Test. It's at http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221 http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221 "The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, called MBTI for short, more properly owes the bulk of its credit to the great Swiss analytical psychologist Carl Jung. In 1921, Jung published his book Psychological Types, in which he laid out all the same concepts found in the MBTI [...]" "An American woman, Katherine Briggs, bought Jung's book and was fascinated by it. She recommended it to her married daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers, who had a degree in political science. The two of them got hooked on the idea of psychological metrics. Together they sat down and codified their own interpretation of Carl Jung, making a few important changes of their own. Jung had everyone fitting into one of four basic buckets. Myers and Briggs decided that each person probably combined elements, so they modified Jung's system and made it a little more complex, ending up with four dichotomies, like binary switches. Any combination of the four switches is allowed, and Myers and Briggs reasoned that just about every personality type could be well described by one of the sixteen possible ways for those switches to be set. Basically, according to Myers and Briggs, we're all represented by a four-digit binary number."
- gnosis 16y ago
  It's important to note that Jung's definition of introvert vs extrovert differs from what most people think these words mean. Usually, people think that extroverts are social and outgoing, while introverts are shy loners. But that's not how Jung saw them. For Jung, introversion was a tendency to focus inwards (think daydreamers, people with a rich fantasy life, someone form whom ideas are important). Conversely, for extroverts the outer world is more significant than their inner world. It's just a matter of different focus or emphasis. So, you could very well be an extrovert and be a loner. Focusing outwards, on (for instance) a personal project or (another example) exploring the external world alone. Or you could be an introvert and be quite comfortable in social situations, and not the least bit shy, but at the same time have a rich fantasy life.
asrk 16y ago
I think your view of the MBTI-traits is a little too black and white. Being an introvert indeed does not meen that you lack communicatoin skills or are uncomfortable in social situations, it only means that you enjoy solitude more than an extroverted person, and even need it sometimes because social situations can be draining. It basically could be described by getting your energy from being alone VS getting it from being with people. The other traits aren't meaningless either, though I think their naming can be a little misleading. For example, always keeping deadlines or finishing prior to them is a high indicator of someone being a J. Ss tend to be more detail oriented, in-the-moment people, why Ns see the big picture, etc. I think if you spend some time really understanding the MBTI it can be of great help in dealing with people that are different than you. So what I'm really trying to say - those traits don't describe how people behave, but how they process information and handle certain situations.

by wisty 16y ago

Luyt 16y ago

Brian Dunning wrote a critical article on the Myers-Briggs Personality Test. It's at http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221 http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4221 "The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, called MBTI for short, more properly owes the bulk of its credit to the great Swiss analytical psychologist Carl Jung. In 1921, Jung published his book Psychological Types, in which he laid out all the same concepts found in the MBTI [...]" "An American woman, Katherine Briggs, bought Jung's book and was fascinated by it. She recommended it to her married daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers, who had a degree in political science. The two of them got hooked on the idea of psychological metrics. Together they sat down and codified their own interpretation of Carl Jung, making a few important changes of their own. Jung had everyone fitting into one of four basic buckets. Myers and Briggs decided that each person probably combined elements, so they modified Jung's system and made it a little more complex, ending up with four dichotomies, like binary switches. Any combination of the four switches is allowed, and Myers and Briggs reasoned that just about every personality type could be well described by one of the sixteen possible ways for those switches to be set. Basically, according to Myers and Briggs, we're all represented by a four-digit binary number."

gnosis 16y ago
It's important to note that Jung's definition of introvert vs extrovert differs from what most people think these words mean. Usually, people think that extroverts are social and outgoing, while introverts are shy loners. But that's not how Jung saw them. For Jung, introversion was a tendency to focus inwards (think daydreamers, people with a rich fantasy life, someone form whom ideas are important). Conversely, for extroverts the outer world is more significant than their inner world. It's just a matter of different focus or emphasis. So, you could very well be an extrovert and be a loner. Focusing outwards, on (for instance) a personal project or (another example) exploring the external world alone. Or you could be an introvert and be quite comfortable in social situations, and not the least bit shy, but at the same time have a rich fantasy life.

asrk 16y ago

I think your view of the MBTI-traits is a little too black and white. Being an introvert indeed does not meen that you lack communicatoin skills or are uncomfortable in social situations, it only means that you enjoy solitude more than an extroverted person, and even need it sometimes because social situations can be draining. It basically could be described by getting your energy from being alone VS getting it from being with people. The other traits aren't meaningless either, though I think their naming can be a little misleading. For example, always keeping deadlines or finishing prior to them is a high indicator of someone being a J. Ss tend to be more detail oriented, in-the-moment people, why Ns see the big picture, etc. I think if you spend some time really understanding the MBTI it can be of great help in dealing with people that are different than you. So what I'm really trying to say - those traits don't describe how people behave, but how they process information and handle certain situations.