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Nice. More science/engineering-minded cooks should learn about this. A close second is the Leidenfrost effect[1]; it's the secret to cooking eggs properly wit

by asguy 6y ago

Nice. More science/engineering-minded cooks should learn about this. A close second is the Leidenfrost effect[1]; it's the secret to cooking eggs properly without non-stick. Your omelettes will float on a bed of steam. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect

lukevp 6y ago
If you use a carbon steel pan and season it properly, it’s just as nonstick as a nonstick pan. We don’t use Teflon or any other coated pans because we have birds and it can be lethal for them if a pan is overheated. 379+ degrees sounds way too hot to cook eggs, especially scrambled or omelette.
- korethr 6y ago
  I've heard this assertion before, that a cast-iron or carbon-steel pan can be made just as non-stick as a teflon pan with a proper seasoning. I disagree, based on my own experience. I have some cast iron pans that I took the care to clean an polish smooth, and season well, and they are seasoned better than most other cast iron or steel skillets I've seen in other people's kitchens. It's smooth enough to cook eggs on, _if_ I use sufficient cooking fat. And even then, even my cheap teflon-coated pans are smoother, and can get away with using less cooking fat. Yes, a steel or iron pan, well-seasoned, can be used for several tasks that someone might think would require a teflon pan. But even then, there are some things that are just plain easier on a teflon pan than they are on well-seasoned iron or steel.
  - mikeyouse 6y ago
    Yeah this is my experience too - My carbon steel pan is fine for cooking eggs if I put a dollop of butter in there - my nonstick pan is fine even without the butter. I love the carbon steel for like 90% of my cooking, but if I'm just making an egg or two the teflon is unbeatable.
    - lukevp 6y ago
      Do you honestly cook eggs without butter or at least some type of fat? My carbon steel will stick certain things if I throw them in when the pan’s not fully heated and completely dry, so I concede that point to you. I don’t cook like this though and It’s not really a recommended cooking style in general to start with a cold pan and no fat. Woks are carbon steel and have eggs cooked on them all the time commercially for fried rice and such.
      - mikeyouse 6y ago
        Nah I always have fat in the pan regardless, but it's more that there will occasionally be something that causes egg to stick to the carbon pan which requires a whole process to clean / reseason or whatever when I can just use the teflon without a care in the world and save the carbon for steaks or veggies.
    - steef 6y ago
      I used to really like Teflon, but then I watched a lil documentary on the problems that come from manufacturing the coating. DuPont and 3M poisoned nearly the whole planet. “The Devil We Know” is the title. They just swept the problems under the rug, switched to different chemicals when shit hit the fan, but those chemicals carry the same dangers. It ain’t just the birds in the house that take a hit. It’s in you forever.
  - lukevp 6y ago
    Carbon steel is stamped, cast iron is cast. Back in the day they used to polish them completely smooth but don’t anymore due to the labor involved. I used to use a seasoned cast iron pan and the carbon steel is massively more nonstick.
- asguy 6y ago
  > 379+ degrees sounds way too hot to cook eggs, especially scrambled or omelette. It's not. I started trusting in my pans, lifting them off the burner as necessary for heat management, and properly distributing the egg curds with a fork as they form. It's a whole new game.
  - lukevp 6y ago
    Butter starts browning at 266. Most oil smoke points are below 375. You are heating your pan to the point your fats are blackening to cook eggs? Cooks illustrated even refers to 250 as an acceptable temp for omelette and 350 as “egg toughening”. https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5454-preheat-your-omelet-pan-slowly https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5454-preheat-your-o...
    - asguy 6y ago
      There's more to the Leidenfrost Effect's impact on the cooking eggs than just the temperature. For the TL;DR version, watch the Myth Buster's take[1] on how you can put your hand into molten lead and not get burned. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg
    - elil17 6y ago
      The whole point of the effect is that, while the pan reaches such a high temperature, the egg does not because it is insulated by a layer of steam.
  - Xcelerate 6y ago
    380 F is way too hot for cooking eggs. I have a Control Freak induction cooktop that directly measures the temperature of the pan, and 380 F is closer to searing than it is to cooking eggs. They would burn almost immediately.
    - asguy 6y ago
      Read the WikiPedia article I linked, or watch the MythBuster's video I posted below... the water in the eggs turns instantly to steam and causes them to be buffered from the pan. It's not magic; I use this technique when making omelettes and scrambling, but not when I'm frying eggs.
- rstupek 6y ago
  Just bought a carbon steel frying pan (remarkably inexpensive too) and curiously have the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect happen when dropping some water to see if it was hot enough. Had no idea what that effect was until I read this thread! Weird how that happens sometimes
mrestko 6y ago
No one cooks omelettes like that. Where are you getting that from? If you actually tried this you would end up with burned, acrid eggs.
- asguy 6y ago
  This is how I cook them. It's pretty common knowledge for professional cooks[1], they just don't realize what it's called. [1] https://youtu.be/CB-SCA1reqE?t=58 https://youtu.be/CB-SCA1reqE?t=58
  - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
    That video only references it as a way of verifying temperature, not a cooking technique. I don't understand the claim that cooks wouldn't know what this would be called.
    - asguy 6y ago
      She says "the proper temperature",.. and then starts cooking with the pan. Thus implying that the pan should be that hot to use it, for cooking.
      - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
        Your claim was > Your omelettes will float on a bed of steam. Due to the effect. Not that the effect can be used to judge hotness of the pan.
- elil17 6y ago
  I cook omelettes like that. I learned the technique from a friend who was a line cook at some fancy French restaurant. It works well as long as you have a very thin layer of eggs. Instead of butter, you brush a little bit of high smoke-point oil onto the pan (and mix a dash of heavy cream into the omelette batter to make up for the lost butter flavor). The eggs don't burn because they are insulated by a layer of steam. It doesn't work for thick, American diner-style omelettes. The technique is useful because it lets you cook French-style (creamy, wet-in-the-center, made with about 100 ml of omelette batter for a 10-inch skillet) omelettes really quickly. Whereas the cooking time for a French-style omelette is typically five minutes, with this technique it is perhaps seven seconds.

by asguy 6y ago

lukevp 6y ago

If you use a carbon steel pan and season it properly, it’s just as nonstick as a nonstick pan. We don’t use Teflon or any other coated pans because we have birds and it can be lethal for them if a pan is overheated. 379+ degrees sounds way too hot to cook eggs, especially scrambled or omelette.

korethr 6y ago
I've heard this assertion before, that a cast-iron or carbon-steel pan can be made just as non-stick as a teflon pan with a proper seasoning. I disagree, based on my own experience. I have some cast iron pans that I took the care to clean an polish smooth, and season well, and they are seasoned better than most other cast iron or steel skillets I've seen in other people's kitchens. It's smooth enough to cook eggs on, _if_ I use sufficient cooking fat. And even then, even my cheap teflon-coated pans are smoother, and can get away with using less cooking fat. Yes, a steel or iron pan, well-seasoned, can be used for several tasks that someone might think would require a teflon pan. But even then, there are some things that are just plain easier on a teflon pan than they are on well-seasoned iron or steel.
- mikeyouse 6y ago
  Yeah this is my experience too - My carbon steel pan is fine for cooking eggs if I put a dollop of butter in there - my nonstick pan is fine even without the butter. I love the carbon steel for like 90% of my cooking, but if I'm just making an egg or two the teflon is unbeatable.
  - lukevp 6y ago
    Do you honestly cook eggs without butter or at least some type of fat? My carbon steel will stick certain things if I throw them in when the pan’s not fully heated and completely dry, so I concede that point to you. I don’t cook like this though and It’s not really a recommended cooking style in general to start with a cold pan and no fat. Woks are carbon steel and have eggs cooked on them all the time commercially for fried rice and such.
    - mikeyouse 6y ago
      Nah I always have fat in the pan regardless, but it's more that there will occasionally be something that causes egg to stick to the carbon pan which requires a whole process to clean / reseason or whatever when I can just use the teflon without a care in the world and save the carbon for steaks or veggies.
  - steef 6y ago
    I used to really like Teflon, but then I watched a lil documentary on the problems that come from manufacturing the coating. DuPont and 3M poisoned nearly the whole planet. “The Devil We Know” is the title. They just swept the problems under the rug, switched to different chemicals when shit hit the fan, but those chemicals carry the same dangers. It ain’t just the birds in the house that take a hit. It’s in you forever.
- lukevp 6y ago
  Carbon steel is stamped, cast iron is cast. Back in the day they used to polish them completely smooth but don’t anymore due to the labor involved. I used to use a seasoned cast iron pan and the carbon steel is massively more nonstick.
asguy 6y ago
> 379+ degrees sounds way too hot to cook eggs, especially scrambled or omelette. It's not. I started trusting in my pans, lifting them off the burner as necessary for heat management, and properly distributing the egg curds with a fork as they form. It's a whole new game.
- lukevp 6y ago
  Butter starts browning at 266. Most oil smoke points are below 375. You are heating your pan to the point your fats are blackening to cook eggs? Cooks illustrated even refers to 250 as an acceptable temp for omelette and 350 as “egg toughening”. https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5454-preheat-your-omelet-pan-slowly https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/5454-preheat-your-o...
  - asguy 6y ago
    There's more to the Leidenfrost Effect's impact on the cooking eggs than just the temperature. For the TL;DR version, watch the Myth Buster's take[1] on how you can put your hand into molten lead and not get burned. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg
  - elil17 6y ago
    The whole point of the effect is that, while the pan reaches such a high temperature, the egg does not because it is insulated by a layer of steam.
- Xcelerate 6y ago
  380 F is way too hot for cooking eggs. I have a Control Freak induction cooktop that directly measures the temperature of the pan, and 380 F is closer to searing than it is to cooking eggs. They would burn almost immediately.
  - asguy 6y ago
    Read the WikiPedia article I linked, or watch the MythBuster's video I posted below... the water in the eggs turns instantly to steam and causes them to be buffered from the pan. It's not magic; I use this technique when making omelettes and scrambling, but not when I'm frying eggs.
rstupek 6y ago
Just bought a carbon steel frying pan (remarkably inexpensive too) and curiously have the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect happen when dropping some water to see if it was hot enough. Had no idea what that effect was until I read this thread! Weird how that happens sometimes

mrestko 6y ago

No one cooks omelettes like that. Where are you getting that from? If you actually tried this you would end up with burned, acrid eggs.

asguy 6y ago
This is how I cook them. It's pretty common knowledge for professional cooks[1], they just don't realize what it's called. [1] https://youtu.be/CB-SCA1reqE?t=58 https://youtu.be/CB-SCA1reqE?t=58
- NikolaeVarius 6y ago
  That video only references it as a way of verifying temperature, not a cooking technique. I don't understand the claim that cooks wouldn't know what this would be called.
  - asguy 6y ago
    She says "the proper temperature",.. and then starts cooking with the pan. Thus implying that the pan should be that hot to use it, for cooking.
    - NikolaeVarius 6y ago
      Your claim was > Your omelettes will float on a bed of steam. Due to the effect. Not that the effect can be used to judge hotness of the pan.
elil17 6y ago
I cook omelettes like that. I learned the technique from a friend who was a line cook at some fancy French restaurant. It works well as long as you have a very thin layer of eggs. Instead of butter, you brush a little bit of high smoke-point oil onto the pan (and mix a dash of heavy cream into the omelette batter to make up for the lost butter flavor). The eggs don't burn because they are insulated by a layer of steam. It doesn't work for thick, American diner-style omelettes. The technique is useful because it lets you cook French-style (creamy, wet-in-the-center, made with about 100 ml of omelette batter for a 10-inch skillet) omelettes really quickly. Whereas the cooking time for a French-style omelette is typically five minutes, with this technique it is perhaps seven seconds.