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Linux on the desktop "works" today just like it did twenty years ago -- painfully and with a lot of work to work around the operating system's inability to be a

by jki275 6y ago

Linux on the desktop "works" today just like it did twenty years ago -- painfully and with a lot of work to work around the operating system's inability to be a desktop OS. Same thing with Java. Sure, it's not as slow as it was 20 years ago, but it's still slow and painful in comparison to compiled languages. I've used Linux actively for 30 years or more, and I've never had a "great experience" once with it. It's a tool that I have to beat into submission to get it to do whatever ridiculous workflow someone dreamed up that can't be done on a real operating system.

craigsmansion 6y ago
> I've used Linux actively for 30 years or more "The Linux kernel was conceived and created in 1991"
- jki275 6y ago
  29, whatever. When you've been doing this as long as I have the years run together.
bitcharmer 6y ago
> it's still slow and painful in comparison to compiled languages Something tells me your opinion about Java is stronger than your experience. Java IS a compiled language. It just happens at runtime. https://www.oracle.com/technical-resources/articles/java/architect-evans-pt1.html https://www.oracle.com/technical-resources/articles/java/arc... I see this as yet another example of people here repeating a severely outdated statements about the JVM ecosystem.
- jki275 6y ago
  Sure. Of course Oracle wants you to believe that Java is faster than C.
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    Java has been broadly used in HPC and low-latency trading software for years now. That's not only because much more attractive time-to-market but also because in many cases Java is on par with c/cpp when it comes to performance. Sometimes even better. I'm under the impression that you are not interested in educating yourself on the topic, however if I'm mistaken, have a look at some reasons why Java can be as fast or faster than c/cpp: - TLAB (thread-local allocation buffer) - Escape analysis - Mono- and bi-morphic callsite optimizations - JIT in general (dead code elimination, implicit null checks, CHA-based optimizations, etc). Also, you don't have to use Oracle JVMs. There's IBM's J9, OpenJDK-based Zulu, or commercial JVM from Azul (Zing).
    - jki275 6y ago
      I've used Java in the enterprise plenty. Not a fan. And no, it's really never faster than properly written C/C++. And no, the actual HFT stuff is written in C++.
      - bitcharmer 6y ago
        > And no, the actual HFT stuff is written in C++ This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Source: been working on low-latency HFT Java apps for shops like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, UBS and others for 10+ years. Not going to reply any more. Not worth it.
        jki275 6y ago
        Of course you have. Not worth it, indeed.

by jki275 6y ago

craigsmansion 6y ago

> I've used Linux actively for 30 years or more "The Linux kernel was conceived and created in 1991"

jki275 6y ago
29, whatever. When you've been doing this as long as I have the years run together.

bitcharmer 6y ago

> it's still slow and painful in comparison to compiled languages Something tells me your opinion about Java is stronger than your experience. Java IS a compiled language. It just happens at runtime. https://www.oracle.com/technical-resources/articles/java/architect-evans-pt1.html https://www.oracle.com/technical-resources/articles/java/arc... I see this as yet another example of people here repeating a severely outdated statements about the JVM ecosystem.

jki275 6y ago
Sure. Of course Oracle wants you to believe that Java is faster than C.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  Java has been broadly used in HPC and low-latency trading software for years now. That's not only because much more attractive time-to-market but also because in many cases Java is on par with c/cpp when it comes to performance. Sometimes even better. I'm under the impression that you are not interested in educating yourself on the topic, however if I'm mistaken, have a look at some reasons why Java can be as fast or faster than c/cpp: - TLAB (thread-local allocation buffer) - Escape analysis - Mono- and bi-morphic callsite optimizations - JIT in general (dead code elimination, implicit null checks, CHA-based optimizations, etc). Also, you don't have to use Oracle JVMs. There's IBM's J9, OpenJDK-based Zulu, or commercial JVM from Azul (Zing).
  - jki275 6y ago
    I've used Java in the enterprise plenty. Not a fan. And no, it's really never faster than properly written C/C++. And no, the actual HFT stuff is written in C++.
    - bitcharmer 6y ago
      > And no, the actual HFT stuff is written in C++ This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Source: been working on low-latency HFT Java apps for shops like Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, UBS and others for 10+ years. Not going to reply any more. Not worth it.
      - jki275 6y ago
        Of course you have. Not worth it, indeed.