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> So, why not use "discrimination on the basis of race" or "racial discrimination" for the non-systemic kind, and reserve "racist" for the systemic one? Becaus

by thefz 6y ago

> So, why not use "discrimination on the basis of race" or "racial discrimination" for the non-systemic kind, and reserve "racist" for the systemic one? Because it is already the other way around, why swap definitions to create more confusion? "racism" is broadly the discrimination on the basis of race. Any nuance should get a new definition. Period.

eesmith 6y ago
Do you still believe that "you can't be racist towards white people" is a mantra? Or do you accept that perhaps the issue is one of differing definitions? I don't understand what "the other way around" means. What's an example of something which is racist but not racial discrimination? [1] If you instead see them as synonyms, why not personally use "racial discrimination" knowing that it's the definition with less diversity in interpretation? FWIW, US law doesn't seem to use the term "racist" or "racism" but does use the terms "discrimination on the basis of race" and "racial discrimination", which I interpret as meaning that those terms are more well defined. [1] Here's my thought experiment. The US Constitution requires that racial discrimination be allowed in some circumstances, such as private clubs. I find that I prefer to say that the Constitution allows some racial discrimination, rather than saying that the Constitution allows some racism. Which makes me think that "racism" is an emotionally stronger and more specific term than "racial discrimination."
- tomnipotent 6y ago
  Racism implies motive, discrimination implies action (of which racism is one motive e.g. mysogyny, agism). One of these is easier to prove and prosecute.
  - eesmith 6y ago
    If an image-recognition algorithm training set omits black faces and results in black people being labelled "ape", is that racism? If so, what's the motive? If not, what term would you use?

by thefz 6y ago

eesmith 6y ago

Do you still believe that "you can't be racist towards white people" is a mantra? Or do you accept that perhaps the issue is one of differing definitions? I don't understand what "the other way around" means. What's an example of something which is racist but not racial discrimination? [1] If you instead see them as synonyms, why not personally use "racial discrimination" knowing that it's the definition with less diversity in interpretation? FWIW, US law doesn't seem to use the term "racist" or "racism" but does use the terms "discrimination on the basis of race" and "racial discrimination", which I interpret as meaning that those terms are more well defined. [1] Here's my thought experiment. The US Constitution requires that racial discrimination be allowed in some circumstances, such as private clubs. I find that I prefer to say that the Constitution allows some racial discrimination, rather than saying that the Constitution allows some racism. Which makes me think that "racism" is an emotionally stronger and more specific term than "racial discrimination."

tomnipotent 6y ago
Racism implies motive, discrimination implies action (of which racism is one motive e.g. mysogyny, agism). One of these is easier to prove and prosecute.
- eesmith 6y ago
  If an image-recognition algorithm training set omits black faces and results in black people being labelled "ape", is that racism? If so, what's the motive? If not, what term would you use?