3 ms·

I don't believe we even have evidence whether or not the olmec culture had a state. If you're looking for a better narrative, "time" is a decent one. I don't be

I don't believe we even have evidence whether or not the olmec culture had a state. If you're looking for a better narrative, "time" is a decent one. I don't believe there's much evidence of ergonomic hand carts until pretty much modern times. Personally I'm not holding my breath for a decent explanation, ever, especially when the wheel toys are concentrated in an area known for not preserving wood well sans mudslide. In any case, the baggage cart like you're describing, or maybe a hand truck, seem to be both artifacts coming out of industrialized society. I'm not sure how useful one would be on a steep hill if the cart itself, including the axle and wheels, were made of wood. You don't really see modern, usable baggage carts until the industrialized production of steel (I'd love to be corrected). Hand carts? Sure, but of a more significant weight:load ratio meant for longer distance, heavy load, flat hauling—remember these suckers often have brakes you wouldn't want to engage on a runaway cart, like a peg through the spoke or axle or a wedge under the wheels. I'd think some kind of carrying + strap frame like you see today would be a better fit for personal hauling and balsa might even work well for it.

WalterBright 6y ago
> were made of wood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubljana_Marshes_Wheel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubljana_Marshes_Wheel Wheel & axle made of wood, for a two wheel push cart. Spend some time using an ordinary dolly to move heavy boxes around, then try carrying them. There's just no comparison. Besides, it's one thing to say that wheel technology is gated by metals technology, quite another to say it is gated by the existence of pack animals.
- jbay808 6y ago
  Wow, cool! Thanks for the link. The axle is also very clearly a turned part, probably made on a lathe.
- monadic2 6y ago
  I’m not quite sure of your point—the cart was obviously found in a swamp and would have been poorly suited to hauling things up “steep hills”. I would at least have used a spoked wheel if I were arguing the obvious need of a handcart, the weight and stability difference over rough terrain is quite large. That, or provided video evidence you want to haul a solid wood cart up a steep hill with groceries. I’m pointing out projecting modern needs backwards out of speculation isn’t likely to yield much understanding of why someone didn’t invent a handcart in precolumbian mesoamerica. Jared Diamond at least compares the material conditions of the two sets of continents—that seems like a decent tactic for approaching the past, even if I do have large complaints with his confident narratives.
  - WalterBright 6y ago
    When you're building a stone building, you'll want to be hauling heavy stones. Even a heavy-ish wooden cart would be most helpful with that. I've been to Chichen-Inza. It's flat. The Egyptian chariots had wooden wheels and axles, and were light. https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/courses/fightingpharaohs10/9985.html https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/course...

WalterBright 6y ago

> were made of wood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubljana_Marshes_Wheel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubljana_Marshes_Wheel Wheel & axle made of wood, for a two wheel push cart. Spend some time using an ordinary dolly to move heavy boxes around, then try carrying them. There's just no comparison. Besides, it's one thing to say that wheel technology is gated by metals technology, quite another to say it is gated by the existence of pack animals.

jbay808 6y ago
Wow, cool! Thanks for the link. The axle is also very clearly a turned part, probably made on a lathe.
monadic2 6y ago
I’m not quite sure of your point—the cart was obviously found in a swamp and would have been poorly suited to hauling things up “steep hills”. I would at least have used a spoked wheel if I were arguing the obvious need of a handcart, the weight and stability difference over rough terrain is quite large. That, or provided video evidence you want to haul a solid wood cart up a steep hill with groceries. I’m pointing out projecting modern needs backwards out of speculation isn’t likely to yield much understanding of why someone didn’t invent a handcart in precolumbian mesoamerica. Jared Diamond at least compares the material conditions of the two sets of continents—that seems like a decent tactic for approaching the past, even if I do have large complaints with his confident narratives.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  When you're building a stone building, you'll want to be hauling heavy stones. Even a heavy-ish wooden cart would be most helpful with that. I've been to Chichen-Inza. It's flat. The Egyptian chariots had wooden wheels and axles, and were light. https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/courses/fightingpharaohs10/9985.html https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Joukowsky_Institute/course...