4 ms·

That seems like a good argument to expand unemployment benefits during a global pandemic, and I suspect most public health officials would agree.

by baddox 6y ago

skissane 6y ago
A number of countries have implemented wage subsidy schemes, in which the government pays employers to keep employees on payroll even while there is no work for them to do due to the COVID-19 lockdown. Those schemes are in some ways better than unemployment benefits, in that they maintain the employer-employee relationship which increases the odds the job will still be there to go back to when the crisis is over. UK: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wages-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wages-through-the-coro... Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/ https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/ New Zealand: https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-types-of-leave/coronavirus-workplace/wage-subsidy/ https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-type... Ireland: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/covid19_temporary_wage_subsidy_scheme.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemploymen...
- baddox 6y ago
  That makes sense. I intended to refer broadly to programs to compensate people due to lockdown-related reductions in income.
- tartoran 6y ago
  How does it work with workers in the food service industry where the workers are paid cash? Or maybe that’s not common outside the US
  - skissane 6y ago
    Well, in Australia's case – the wage subsidy comes from the Australian Tax Office (ATO), which is our equivalent to the IRS. So if you haven't been withholding income tax from your employees, you can't get the subsidy for them (unless you confess your past tax evasion, which obviously you aren't going to do.) But, paying employees cash only is much harder than it used to be. Many customers now only want to pay card. The tax office sees the card payments coming into your bank account, if you try to pay your employees cash it is easy for them to catch you. So, I think the number of workers actually hurt by that is relatively small. COVID-19 has accelerated the transition from cash to card payment, because the health advice was to avoid cash payments (due to risk that cash may spread Coronavirus), and many businesses responded by refusing to accept cash entirely.
    - microcolonel 6y ago
      > So, I think the number of workers actually hurt by that is relatively small. Guarantee you it is a huge number in Canada, and probably the U.S. as well. Tax fraud in food service, bars, and kitchens is the norm here in Ontario.
  - disordinary 6y ago
    That's a unique US thing. In countries like New Zealand people in the service industry get the same minimum wage as anyone else ($18.90 per hour) and don't rely on tips, they're normal employees and go through the same normal tax system. That's why there is the joke about people from overseas not knowing how to tip.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Seems to be a US thing. In Germany, every company can as for "Kurzarbeit", short-wok, or all or part of its employees. Which are on the payroll, thus properly registered, unless the company cheated. In whch case I wouldn't be surprsed of that company just closes shop and fires everyone. It gets tricky for temps and contractors, so. If you are a temp, and employed by a third company lending you ut, that company can ask for Kurzarbeit. In agriculture and food processing, most of the work force are temps emplyed by sub-contractors. Thearetically, they are covered. In praxis, they are more often than not screwed. The sub-contractors sub-contractor is potentially ot evena german omany to begin with. Shining light on this, is one of the few good things about Cocid-19, if you ask me.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

That seems like a good argument to expand unemployment benefits during a global pandemic, and I suspect most public health officials would agree.

by baddox 6y ago

That seems like a good argument to expand unemployment benefits during a global pandemic, and I suspect most public health officials would agree.

skissane 6y ago

A number of countries have implemented wage subsidy schemes, in which the government pays employers to keep employees on payroll even while there is no work for them to do due to the COVID-19 lockdown. Those schemes are in some ways better than unemployment benefits, in that they maintain the employer-employee relationship which increases the odds the job will still be there to go back to when the crisis is over. UK: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wages-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wages-through-the-coro... Australia: https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/ https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/ New Zealand: https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-types-of-leave/coronavirus-workplace/wage-subsidy/ https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/other-type... Ireland: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/covid19_temporary_wage_subsidy_scheme.html https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemploymen...

baddox 6y ago
That makes sense. I intended to refer broadly to programs to compensate people due to lockdown-related reductions in income.
tartoran 6y ago
How does it work with workers in the food service industry where the workers are paid cash? Or maybe that’s not common outside the US
- skissane 6y ago
  Well, in Australia's case – the wage subsidy comes from the Australian Tax Office (ATO), which is our equivalent to the IRS. So if you haven't been withholding income tax from your employees, you can't get the subsidy for them (unless you confess your past tax evasion, which obviously you aren't going to do.) But, paying employees cash only is much harder than it used to be. Many customers now only want to pay card. The tax office sees the card payments coming into your bank account, if you try to pay your employees cash it is easy for them to catch you. So, I think the number of workers actually hurt by that is relatively small. COVID-19 has accelerated the transition from cash to card payment, because the health advice was to avoid cash payments (due to risk that cash may spread Coronavirus), and many businesses responded by refusing to accept cash entirely.
  - microcolonel 6y ago
    > So, I think the number of workers actually hurt by that is relatively small. Guarantee you it is a huge number in Canada, and probably the U.S. as well. Tax fraud in food service, bars, and kitchens is the norm here in Ontario.
- disordinary 6y ago
  That's a unique US thing. In countries like New Zealand people in the service industry get the same minimum wage as anyone else ($18.90 per hour) and don't rely on tips, they're normal employees and go through the same normal tax system. That's why there is the joke about people from overseas not knowing how to tip.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Seems to be a US thing. In Germany, every company can as for "Kurzarbeit", short-wok, or all or part of its employees. Which are on the payroll, thus properly registered, unless the company cheated. In whch case I wouldn't be surprsed of that company just closes shop and fires everyone. It gets tricky for temps and contractors, so. If you are a temp, and employed by a third company lending you ut, that company can ask for Kurzarbeit. In agriculture and food processing, most of the work force are temps emplyed by sub-contractors. Thearetically, they are covered. In praxis, they are more often than not screwed. The sub-contractors sub-contractor is potentially ot evena german omany to begin with. Shining light on this, is one of the few good things about Cocid-19, if you ask me.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]