4 ms·

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm against more police. I think communities would be better served by an increase in social workers in most cases. Drug usage

by d2v 6y ago

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm against more police. I think communities would be better served by an increase in social workers in most cases. Drug usage and homelessness won't be solved by imprisoning people and forever branding them as criminals. You need bridge housing, treatment programs, and services for these people. And an educational system that is well funded, regardless of the community it serves. I think criminalizing social issues has proven to be pretty ineffective, generally harmful, and really expensive. I'd recommend checking out "The End of Policing" for a thoughtful, well-reasoned argument for decreasing the number of police. The ebook is free: https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing

tomnipotent 6y ago
> I think communities would be better served by an increase in social workers in most cases I couldn't agree more. I think there's an appropriate ratio of police/population, though I don't think I'm even remotely qualified to speak on that subject. But when I think about the "police/prosecutorial/prison-industrial complex", I can't help but hope that the only real path to a long-term solution is actually giving a shit and genuinely wanting to help people get better, vs "justice".
malnourish 6y ago
I am fine with more police if we entirely redefine police to mean social workers, counselors, community assistants, etc. And if they didn't carry guns nor drive unmarked cars. Police should be seen and they should be seen interacting positively with the community, not patrolling in a gradient of (un)identifiable vehicles.
- Myce 6y ago
  I live in a country where most of this is true. Unfortunately, there are now so many care workers that many people with issues are getting fed up with all the people that come to their house for all kinds of help (think a care worker for finance, one for mental issues,one for physical issues,one to help the person get back to work, one for the kids etc. etc.) So if there will be a shift from 'police as is', to more like a care worker system, this would be something to consider. But other than that, it seems to work well. The police is considered your friend. They pretty know each of the people that have issues or who ever committed crime. They continue to offer help to them,but will make sure they also get off the streets when they become a potential threat. There continues to be a lot of criticism from certain groups within our country that wants the police act tougher, but I think the majority of people are happy with how the police does it's job here.
  - devin 6y ago
    What country do you live in?
    - Myce 6y ago
      The Netherlands. I assume for some more Northern European and Scandinavian countries it's about the same.
      - colinhb 6y ago
        I am an American living in Netherlands, and policing is very different here. Think Dutch police (or at least Amsterdam police) have a much more positive impact on neighborhoods than American police (or DC / San Francisco police). I have seen more mediation and deescalation between neighbors from police in a few years in the Netherlands than decades in America. This is a tangent, there also seems to be way, way less paperwork in routine police work in the Netherlands than in America.
      - tyrlo 6y ago
        Hey no offense but tour analysis of how police works un the NL is a best partial. NL is under investigation of countless NGO for having structural racisim, relationships with far right parties and high level corruption within the police force, you can have a look to reports from the league of human right for exemple. Also social helpers system is going nowhere as you have to wait an average of 15 years to get social housing, and in the meanwhile if you're out of options you gotta go into expensive homeless shelters that would make living in the streets desirable given how bad they are, if it wasn't illegal. NL's state build a nice image of nice police and nice social help, but that's an image, reality is far from that
  - yread 6y ago
    There is also a wijkagent - "neighborhood cop". Actual policeperson (with gun and all) that has "office hours" when they are walking around the neighborhood talking to people (even just for a chat) at the playgrounds, business owners and so on. People come to them with problems. There is a website where you can look up wijkagent for each neighborhood. Sometimes they're also active on Twitter, FB... Works quite well
- david38 6y ago
  Those aren’t police. They are part of the social safety net and community wellness. How would you ask a police officer to react to a criminal brandishing or firing a gun in public or at him? How would you ask detectives to work cases against gang leaders if they cannot conceal their identity?
  - dingaling 6y ago
    > Those aren't police ... from Latin politia "civil administration," from Greek polis "city"
  - mcv 6y ago
    @malnourish has a good point, though. Quite often police respond to calls that require a social worker or mental health professional. And in some of those cases, the police decides that a bullet is the best solution to the problem that they are equipped to provide. Many problems require very different solutions, and many police officers are not equipped to provide those solutions. That is a major problem. Either police officers need to be trained as social workers and mental health professionals, or part of their work needs to be taken over by those that have that training.
    - randompwd 6y ago
      Immediately stained by the simplistic naievety of: > And if they didn't carry guns nor drive unmarked cars.
      - tomnipotent 6y ago
        Except this is how many other countries work, so how is it even remotely simplistic or naive?
        randompwd 6y ago
        What 'many other' countries? Every country has unmarked cop cars in use alongside high visibility marked cars. Every country has armed officers in addition to unarmed officers. Given the US has liberal gun laws, how would that even work? It's shortsighted & reactionary unless you want people who are already in dangerous situations to be lambs led to the slaughter because you'd like to think you live in a unicorn reality.
- notduncansmith 6y ago
  I agree with all your points; and while we’re on the subject of optics reform, I have an entirely unsubstantiated pet theory that if we made police uniforms pink, we would see abuse of power drop substantially - the idea being to create a very different (visual and emotional) image of what a police officer is and what they do, and the pink specifically serving the dual purposes of a) reminding police that their job is less about force and more about supporting the community, and b) filtering out any men whose sense of masculinity is so withered/warped that they’d take issue with the standard uniform of a highly-esteemed servant of the community.

by d2v 6y ago

tomnipotent 6y ago

> I think communities would be better served by an increase in social workers in most cases I couldn't agree more. I think there's an appropriate ratio of police/population, though I don't think I'm even remotely qualified to speak on that subject. But when I think about the "police/prosecutorial/prison-industrial complex", I can't help but hope that the only real path to a long-term solution is actually giving a shit and genuinely wanting to help people get better, vs "justice".

malnourish 6y ago

I am fine with more police if we entirely redefine police to mean social workers, counselors, community assistants, etc. And if they didn't carry guns nor drive unmarked cars. Police should be seen and they should be seen interacting positively with the community, not patrolling in a gradient of (un)identifiable vehicles.

Myce 6y ago
I live in a country where most of this is true. Unfortunately, there are now so many care workers that many people with issues are getting fed up with all the people that come to their house for all kinds of help (think a care worker for finance, one for mental issues,one for physical issues,one to help the person get back to work, one for the kids etc. etc.) So if there will be a shift from 'police as is', to more like a care worker system, this would be something to consider. But other than that, it seems to work well. The police is considered your friend. They pretty know each of the people that have issues or who ever committed crime. They continue to offer help to them,but will make sure they also get off the streets when they become a potential threat. There continues to be a lot of criticism from certain groups within our country that wants the police act tougher, but I think the majority of people are happy with how the police does it's job here.
- devin 6y ago
  What country do you live in?
  - Myce 6y ago
    The Netherlands. I assume for some more Northern European and Scandinavian countries it's about the same.
    - colinhb 6y ago
      I am an American living in Netherlands, and policing is very different here. Think Dutch police (or at least Amsterdam police) have a much more positive impact on neighborhoods than American police (or DC / San Francisco police). I have seen more mediation and deescalation between neighbors from police in a few years in the Netherlands than decades in America. This is a tangent, there also seems to be way, way less paperwork in routine police work in the Netherlands than in America.
    - tyrlo 6y ago
      Hey no offense but tour analysis of how police works un the NL is a best partial. NL is under investigation of countless NGO for having structural racisim, relationships with far right parties and high level corruption within the police force, you can have a look to reports from the league of human right for exemple. Also social helpers system is going nowhere as you have to wait an average of 15 years to get social housing, and in the meanwhile if you're out of options you gotta go into expensive homeless shelters that would make living in the streets desirable given how bad they are, if it wasn't illegal. NL's state build a nice image of nice police and nice social help, but that's an image, reality is far from that
- yread 6y ago
  There is also a wijkagent - "neighborhood cop". Actual policeperson (with gun and all) that has "office hours" when they are walking around the neighborhood talking to people (even just for a chat) at the playgrounds, business owners and so on. People come to them with problems. There is a website where you can look up wijkagent for each neighborhood. Sometimes they're also active on Twitter, FB... Works quite well
david38 6y ago
Those aren’t police. They are part of the social safety net and community wellness. How would you ask a police officer to react to a criminal brandishing or firing a gun in public or at him? How would you ask detectives to work cases against gang leaders if they cannot conceal their identity?
- dingaling 6y ago
  > Those aren't police ... from Latin politia "civil administration," from Greek polis "city"
- mcv 6y ago
  @malnourish has a good point, though. Quite often police respond to calls that require a social worker or mental health professional. And in some of those cases, the police decides that a bullet is the best solution to the problem that they are equipped to provide. Many problems require very different solutions, and many police officers are not equipped to provide those solutions. That is a major problem. Either police officers need to be trained as social workers and mental health professionals, or part of their work needs to be taken over by those that have that training.
  - randompwd 6y ago
    Immediately stained by the simplistic naievety of: > And if they didn't carry guns nor drive unmarked cars.
    - tomnipotent 6y ago
      Except this is how many other countries work, so how is it even remotely simplistic or naive?
      - randompwd 6y ago
        What 'many other' countries? Every country has unmarked cop cars in use alongside high visibility marked cars. Every country has armed officers in addition to unarmed officers. Given the US has liberal gun laws, how would that even work? It's shortsighted & reactionary unless you want people who are already in dangerous situations to be lambs led to the slaughter because you'd like to think you live in a unicorn reality.
notduncansmith 6y ago
I agree with all your points; and while we’re on the subject of optics reform, I have an entirely unsubstantiated pet theory that if we made police uniforms pink, we would see abuse of power drop substantially - the idea being to create a very different (visual and emotional) image of what a police officer is and what they do, and the pink specifically serving the dual purposes of a) reminding police that their job is less about force and more about supporting the community, and b) filtering out any men whose sense of masculinity is so withered/warped that they’d take issue with the standard uniform of a highly-esteemed servant of the community.