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I seem to have missed the police setting buildings on fire and beating up shopowners. Not to say that the police haven't committed a ton of violence in these p

I seem to have missed the police setting buildings on fire and beating up shopowners. Not to say that the police haven't committed a ton of violence in these protests, but it's not all them.

Gibbon1 6y ago
There are looters and then there are protestors.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  Well, sure. But if you define "protestor" as "no violence, no looting, no arson", of course the protesters won't do those things.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    Yes, yes. The "No True Protestor/Scotsman" argument.
andrewzah 6y ago
> but it's not all them. Sure, and the other ones look the other way. Totally "good" guys just lettin' bad guys be bad guys. Until the "good" guys start going after and punishing the "few bad ones", they are all bad. If we're going to use the "just some bad apples" argument, then it might be prudent to apply it to the protestors, too? At this point it's borderline ignorant to be unaware of the ongoing police brutalities. And if one -is- aware, it's disingenuous to compare what they're doing to some stores being set on fire- turns out people really, really care about property damage suddenly. [0] [1] [0]: https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/reports/New%20York.md https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/repor... [1]: https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/reports/California.md https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/repor...
- DuskStar 6y ago
  > > but it's not all them. > Sure, and the other ones look the other way. Totally "good" guys just lettin' bad guys be bad guys. Until the "good" guys start going after and punishing the "few bad ones", they are all bad. You seem to have misread "not all the violence comes from police" as "not all of the police are bad", here.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    It looks like I did misread it. However I still think it's not intellectually honest to say "not all violence comes from police". Yeah, sure. So most of the violence comes at the hands of the police, and somehow decades of abuse is comparable to a week's worth of rioting.
    - DuskStar 6y ago
      The post I replied to was saying that 2020's riots were different than LA or Orlando because this time "protestors aren't the ones engaging in violence, the cops are". Which seems pretty inaccurate from where I'm standing - earlier riots also included police brutality, and these riots include violence from the side of the rioters.
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIdAlTpg-m4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIdAlTpg-m4
        DuskStar 6y ago
        Are you trying to say that the LA riots didn't include police brutality? Or just that the violence from the rioters was more extreme than this year's?
        Gibbon1 6y ago
        I'm saying you have not a damn clue how terrifying and violent the LA and Miami riots were. 18 people died during the Miami riots and 63 people were killed during the LA riots. Friend of mine spent four days being sheltered in a black families house during the Miami riots. In the LA riots looters were driving up into the LA hills to loot wealthy houses. Meanwhile 2020 'riots' you have people taking their children to protests. And a few Walmarts and other shops got looted. No comparison at all.

I seem to have missed the police setting buildings on fire and beating up shopowners. Not to say that the police haven't committed a ton of violence in these protests, but it's not all them.

Gibbon1 6y ago

There are looters and then there are protestors.

DuskStar 6y ago
Well, sure. But if you define "protestor" as "no violence, no looting, no arson", of course the protesters won't do those things.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Yes, yes. The "No True Protestor/Scotsman" argument.

andrewzah 6y ago

> but it's not all them. Sure, and the other ones look the other way. Totally "good" guys just lettin' bad guys be bad guys. Until the "good" guys start going after and punishing the "few bad ones", they are all bad. If we're going to use the "just some bad apples" argument, then it might be prudent to apply it to the protestors, too? At this point it's borderline ignorant to be unaware of the ongoing police brutalities. And if one -is- aware, it's disingenuous to compare what they're doing to some stores being set on fire- turns out people really, really care about property damage suddenly. [0] [1] [0]: https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/reports/New%20York.md https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/repor... [1]: https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/reports/California.md https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/blob/master/repor...

DuskStar 6y ago
> > but it's not all them. > Sure, and the other ones look the other way. Totally "good" guys just lettin' bad guys be bad guys. Until the "good" guys start going after and punishing the "few bad ones", they are all bad. You seem to have misread "not all the violence comes from police" as "not all of the police are bad", here.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  It looks like I did misread it. However I still think it's not intellectually honest to say "not all violence comes from police". Yeah, sure. So most of the violence comes at the hands of the police, and somehow decades of abuse is comparable to a week's worth of rioting.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    The post I replied to was saying that 2020's riots were different than LA or Orlando because this time "protestors aren't the ones engaging in violence, the cops are". Which seems pretty inaccurate from where I'm standing - earlier riots also included police brutality, and these riots include violence from the side of the rioters.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIdAlTpg-m4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIdAlTpg-m4
      - DuskStar 6y ago
        Are you trying to say that the LA riots didn't include police brutality? Or just that the violence from the rioters was more extreme than this year's?
        Gibbon1 6y ago
        I'm saying you have not a damn clue how terrifying and violent the LA and Miami riots were. 18 people died during the Miami riots and 63 people were killed during the LA riots. Friend of mine spent four days being sheltered in a black families house during the Miami riots. In the LA riots looters were driving up into the LA hills to loot wealthy houses. Meanwhile 2020 'riots' you have people taking their children to protests. And a few Walmarts and other shops got looted. No comparison at all.