4 ms·

Is this equivalent to a software rewrite? Let's just throw the whole thing out and start over. Throwing out a system and starting afresh would likey introduce

Is this equivalent to a software rewrite? Let's just throw the whole thing out and start over. Throwing out a system and starting afresh would likey introduce new bugs/systemic failures that aren't currently present. Is addressing and correcting each specific feature/SOP not an option?

morgante 6y ago
That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Incremental reform has failed when you have corrupt unions and entrenched cultures. Yes, you should usually try to incrementally fix bugs in a codebase. But sometimes it's so mired in technical debt that you're better off throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch.
- rjkennedy98 6y ago
  > That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Are you implying there haven't been improvements at all? Seriously, if you say things like this, you should need to provide some statistics. I'm pretty sure we're at all time lows for police killing unarmed people (don't know where I saw the statistic but this is why I'm so skeptical of the above statement).
  - morgante 6y ago
    Looking at the police brutality over the past 2 weeks, including blatant attacks on journalists and peaceful protestors, makes it clear that they have not been "reformed."
kart23 6y ago
So you keep decades old code in production, trying to fix bugs in obsolete languages and architectures? I would start a new project in a modern language or framework that's relevant for the environment and make my job a lot easier. Sure there's gonna be bugs, but its easier to fix when I actually built the system and documented it well.
- cmdshiftf4 6y ago
  Said someone who has clearly never been part of a big bang software rewrite before.
  - yardie 6y ago
    I mean if I had an elevator that occassionaly plunged people to their deaths I'd be past trying to patch the bugs and calling in a completely different elevator company. Also, large monolithic systems get replaced constantly. The projects that get in trouble has more to do with project management and change management, the code is just tangential.
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      Ha, exactly. "We've been patching bugs in this elevator software for years and people are plunging to their deaths at lower rates than they used to. Give us a couple more decades and we will have this all fixed." I might suggest ripping out the elevator and just putting in some stairs.
pixl97 6y ago
Police departments are not like software, they are like servers. Sometimes you need to format and reinstall.
- downerending 6y ago
  Unlike servers, the components can take their balls and go elsewhere. Good luck with that.
Lendal 6y ago
My guess is there's a contract with the current MPD and police union that currently hampers all attempts at reform. This would no longer present a problem if they started over from scratch.
- yardie 6y ago
  The stumbling block is the police union president, Bob Kroll. Who has an outsized influence over the police. Also pretty consistent white supremacist, doesn't even try and hide it.
usrusr 6y ago
Usually incrementally fixed code doesn't actively fight back. (there must be some programmer war-stories out there about code that has somehow rewritten itself to restore a previously fixed bug)
downerending 6y ago
It's probably more like deciding that your organization is simply incapable of writing software (which I've seen before). The typical next step is to outsource it to an outside organization that will cost 3x as much and produce software of far lower quality. It's a win, though, because the exec's can point their fingers at them, perhaps even sue them, and in any case proclaim loudly that nothing could have been done. (And also, that they should get their bonuses anyway.) We'll see.
milquetoastaf 6y ago
Jesus christ not everything is mappable to software or tech

morgante 6y ago

That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Incremental reform has failed when you have corrupt unions and entrenched cultures. Yes, you should usually try to incrementally fix bugs in a codebase. But sometimes it's so mired in technical debt that you're better off throwing the whole thing out and starting from scratch.

rjkennedy98 6y ago
> That's been tried for years and clearly hasn't worked. Are you implying there haven't been improvements at all? Seriously, if you say things like this, you should need to provide some statistics. I'm pretty sure we're at all time lows for police killing unarmed people (don't know where I saw the statistic but this is why I'm so skeptical of the above statement).
- morgante 6y ago
  Looking at the police brutality over the past 2 weeks, including blatant attacks on journalists and peaceful protestors, makes it clear that they have not been "reformed."

kart23 6y ago

So you keep decades old code in production, trying to fix bugs in obsolete languages and architectures? I would start a new project in a modern language or framework that's relevant for the environment and make my job a lot easier. Sure there's gonna be bugs, but its easier to fix when I actually built the system and documented it well.

cmdshiftf4 6y ago
Said someone who has clearly never been part of a big bang software rewrite before.
- yardie 6y ago
  I mean if I had an elevator that occassionaly plunged people to their deaths I'd be past trying to patch the bugs and calling in a completely different elevator company. Also, large monolithic systems get replaced constantly. The projects that get in trouble has more to do with project management and change management, the code is just tangential.
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    Ha, exactly. "We've been patching bugs in this elevator software for years and people are plunging to their deaths at lower rates than they used to. Give us a couple more decades and we will have this all fixed." I might suggest ripping out the elevator and just putting in some stairs.

pixl97 6y ago

Police departments are not like software, they are like servers. Sometimes you need to format and reinstall.

downerending 6y ago
Unlike servers, the components can take their balls and go elsewhere. Good luck with that.

Lendal 6y ago

My guess is there's a contract with the current MPD and police union that currently hampers all attempts at reform. This would no longer present a problem if they started over from scratch.

yardie 6y ago
The stumbling block is the police union president, Bob Kroll. Who has an outsized influence over the police. Also pretty consistent white supremacist, doesn't even try and hide it.

usrusr 6y ago

Usually incrementally fixed code doesn't actively fight back. (there must be some programmer war-stories out there about code that has somehow rewritten itself to restore a previously fixed bug)

downerending 6y ago

It's probably more like deciding that your organization is simply incapable of writing software (which I've seen before). The typical next step is to outsource it to an outside organization that will cost 3x as much and produce software of far lower quality. It's a win, though, because the exec's can point their fingers at them, perhaps even sue them, and in any case proclaim loudly that nothing could have been done. (And also, that they should get their bonuses anyway.) We'll see.

milquetoastaf 6y ago

Jesus christ not everything is mappable to software or tech