7 ms·

Why I'm not applying to Y Combinator

28 points by opaas 16y ago

Let me get one thing clear. I applied to Y Combinator last year and got rejected - openplatformasaservice.com. I'm ok with that. In fact most of the creators in life I admire were rejected or not understood even their 3rd time out. In fact, most people who make it big, have 6 failures first. I was actually just filling out the 2011 Y Combinator application when I just stopped and said, this is not the right way for me - hence leading to this post. So really, its not sour grapes. When I first found Y Combinator in my angel research, I thought wow, these guys look great! But after applying last year and being rejected and seeing they provide zero feedback after you take a lot of time to present your company, product and vision just the way they want it and rereading their application this year, it dawned on me. This is the same thing as old line VC's but possibly even worse. At least on Sand Hill Road, you would get serious cash and they would have a lot of sweat in the game. Today, we create a prototype or even working model and even have some traction and take less than $20,000 and give up a big piece of our company. Yes the intros are a good perk, but if you truly have something, you will get there regardless. But it is not about the money or percentages. It is the about the entrepreneurial spirit. I wasted precious time trying to make shotgun approach micro-funders who don't believe in any company enough to put real money into it understand something big that would require imagination and balls. Make a video intro, explain yourself, tell us why we should talk to you, bark like a dog. Fuck that. Not anymore. Power to the programmers - right on.

true_religion 16y ago
You say.... > So really, its not sour grapes. Then end with .... >bark like a dog. Fuck that. Not anymore. Power to the programmers - right on. You may or may not be rightfully disillusioned, but regardless your attitude is in the gutter.
- opaas 16y ago
  I respect your opinion. However, I would say I WAS disillusioned - but no longer.
opaas 16y ago
>You may or may not be rightfully disillusioned, but > regardless your attitude is in the gutter. I respect your opinion. However, I would say I WAS disillusioned - but no longer.
- entangld 16y ago
  If you weren't passionate. You probably wouldn't be an entrepreneur.
corin_ 16y ago
Can't help but feel that with that attitude YC were right not to accept you - sorry.
- opaas 16y ago
  I had a great "attitude" when I applied and jumped through all the hoops last year so I fail to see your point. Unless you are saying the Y Combinator folks are psychic? If that were the case, they would pick winners every time, yes? But seriously, I wouldn't call it an "attitude." I would call it an informed opinion - your opinion may differ.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    What's the difference between now and then? As an entrepreneur, you're going to get rejected over and over again. Why should that change how you approach potential future rejections? As investors, YCombinator wants to see that you won't give up in the face of setbacks...you are now giving up in the face of setbacks. The value of a YCombinator investment does not change depending on whether they have chosen you or not. Why has your decision whether to pursue it changed? (Full disclosure: I've been rejected 4 times from YCombinator. Also rejected from FriendFeed, LikeALittle, Twitter, and Harvard. Stupidly passed up DropBox. Accepted by Amherst and Google. My opinion of any of them has not changed based on whether or not they rejected me. I haven't applied to YC since SFP08, but that's because my interests at present lie more in technology than in startups, and other opportunities have been available to me in that area. That does not mean I would not apply to YC again should I have a burning desire to start a company.)
    - opaas 16y ago
      Please reread my post in context to the post I was replying to. That should help you understand. Also, it is not about rejection. As I mentioned, in my original post, most successful people fail, on average 6 times first, let alone simply get rejected by a potential investor before they have their big success. Rejection is part of the road the road to success. Also, if you took away from my post that I am giving up, I probably could have been clearer. I am not giving up. I am not even giving up on investors. I am just staying clear of "micro-investors." Simply put, the time spent to present yourself the way micro investors want you to is simply not worth it in my opinion. If you are a programmer, the "special case" is not worth it :) The time is better spent working on the product/service/company. It is just a business decision.
potomak 16y ago
This is democracy, cool!
- dstein 16y ago
  You mean anti-establishment.
chr15 16y ago
YC has repeatedly said they care much more about the founding team than the idea. It's a sound principle. A strong team is probably the minimum you need. Just apply. Don't disqualify yourself. It doesn't take long and you have nothing to lose. But your expectations shouldn't be too high, especially after posting something like this. BTW, I have no idea what OPAAS does. Maybe that's the problem.
- opaas 16y ago
  OPaaS is "Open Platform as a Service." Just think "Platform as a Service" but open. Yes, there are some good solid principles at Y Combinator. I agree. To apply in a way I think is thorough, takes at least 8 hours of work - a day's work. That's doing the videos and providing cogent responses to all the questions. Sure you can do it in 20 minutes if you want to rush through, but I don't do that. Now a day's work is not a great amount. However, the problem is that it is a "special case" application that really can't be reused. Y Combinator wants you to tailor an in-depth presentation for them. That's fine. More power to them. However, it says something to me that in return they offer zero feedback. Zero.
  - flignats 16y ago
    8 hours of work for a program like Ycomb is not a lot of work. You can find the time to do it. Plus, you could have shot the video with your camera phone and they would have been fine with it - as long as you were witty and accomplished the goal of the video.
  - maxharris 16y ago
    Just think "Platform as a Service" but open. I don't know what "platform as a service" means. I watched the video on the right side of the page, and I still don't understand. Edit: I looked it up on Wikipedia. I still don't really get what this is about.
- JoshKalkbrenner 16y ago
  Does anyone know: did or would YC release a list of the universities accepted team members graduated from, or went to at time of acceptance?
nostrademons 16y ago
Meta side note: Why is this not on the front page? It has more upvotes, more comments, and was posted more recently than several things that are, I don't see a [dead] next to it, and yet it's sitting at #67.
- g0atbutt 16y ago
  Articles that don't include a link (like ask hn for example) require more velocity to hit the front page.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    I wonder if it's more than that, and the formula was changed lately. "U.S. Missiles Strike Libya", 9 points 33 minutes ago and a link to NYTimes.com, is now at #67, while this is at #46. It used to be that 3-4 points (albeit at non-primetime) was enough to get an article onto the front page.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- bconway 16y ago
  FWIW, this is the kind of thing I tried to pick out in my "Underrateds" HN feeds. http://bconway.posterous.com/hacker-news-feeds-rolling-time-windows-and-di http://bconway.posterous.com/hacker-news-feeds-rolling-time-...
mwerty 16y ago
A better strategy would be to cap your time investment to something you are comfortable with.
notJim 16y ago
Just some feedback on your website: I went to it, and on the home page, I have basically no idea what it is or does, and there's really nothing that hooks me into looking into it more. And actually, now that I look at it, there aren't even links to click on that would answer these questions. I'm guessing you guys are competing with something like EC2 or heroku. Compare your site to heroku.com. The first thing I see is "Rock-solid ruby platform", underneath which it says "Deploy and scale powerful apps." There is a "how it works" link at the top that tells me more.
- opaas 16y ago
  Thank you for the feedback. As a developer, I usually look for a link that says something like "developer" "sdk" "api" or what not. We have a "developer" link on their, albeit small as the main purpose of the site is for consumer to discover and buy Open Apps. They thinking is that if there is a bunch of developer call outs on the home page, it might confuse consumers. There is also an "About" link. Do you think the "developer"and "About" links should be more prominent? I'm curious are you familiar with Platform as a Service (PaaS?) Thanks again for your feedback.
plamb 16y ago
One of the nice things about YC is that they're willing to have an open, public application process. I'm sure you can imagine that supporting that means they personally waste tons of their own time reading applications that don't come close to cutting it. For new entrepreneurs that don't have great connections to investor communities, this is one of the few avenues for getting their ideas vetted by an experienced group of people.
- opaas 16y ago
  What do you mean by "open, public application process?" I don't see anything "open" about it. Last time I checked (last year) there was not even a list of applicants. I'm curious, how would an "open" process differ from a "closed, non-public process?" Waste their time? They read applications so they can find the ones they think are going to make them a lot of money. It is a necessary step needed for them to make money. I'm not sure what your point is. You feel bad they have to read applications they themselves solicit in order for them to make money? Should someone else read them for them and they do nothing during the application process? Getting their ideas vetted? Y Combinator gives zero feedback to applicants, leaving them in the dark as to why they were rejected. How does that help? Any vetting process I ever saw gave a "report" or at least some information as to why or why not a candidate was approved or not. Y Combinator does neither. As you said, they spend enormous amounts of time reading the applications (for their benefit) but zero time providing any feedback whatsoever for the applicants benefit. What does that tell you? Does that sound like an entity who is truly trying to help the developers? What do you take away or learn from that? What value does that have?
  - plamb 16y ago
    What I meant by 'public, open application process' is that anyone can apply and get their ideas reviewed by very smart people whereas many VC's/Angels won't even glance at you until you're referred by someone they know. PG has openly stated that the overwhelming majority of the time, it's not that you have a bad startup idea where he can just list of a bunch of reasons why you didn't make it, but rather that other people just simply had better startup ideas. I'm pretty sure the companies they invest in are made publicly available, so it would be easy to see what better ideas are out there.
alexl 16y ago
I find it sooooooo ironic that I'm stumbling upon this post now. I just published my last YC submission and then posted it here on HN. You might want to read it, opaas :) (if you think it's spam, just don't click the link, okay? :)) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2361753 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2361753

28 points by opaas 16y ago

true_religion 16y ago

You say.... > So really, its not sour grapes. Then end with .... >bark like a dog. Fuck that. Not anymore. Power to the programmers - right on. You may or may not be rightfully disillusioned, but regardless your attitude is in the gutter.

opaas 16y ago
I respect your opinion. However, I would say I WAS disillusioned - but no longer.

opaas 16y ago

>You may or may not be rightfully disillusioned, but > regardless your attitude is in the gutter. I respect your opinion. However, I would say I WAS disillusioned - but no longer.

entangld 16y ago
If you weren't passionate. You probably wouldn't be an entrepreneur.

corin_ 16y ago

Can't help but feel that with that attitude YC were right not to accept you - sorry.

opaas 16y ago
I had a great "attitude" when I applied and jumped through all the hoops last year so I fail to see your point. Unless you are saying the Y Combinator folks are psychic? If that were the case, they would pick winners every time, yes? But seriously, I wouldn't call it an "attitude." I would call it an informed opinion - your opinion may differ.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  What's the difference between now and then? As an entrepreneur, you're going to get rejected over and over again. Why should that change how you approach potential future rejections? As investors, YCombinator wants to see that you won't give up in the face of setbacks...you are now giving up in the face of setbacks. The value of a YCombinator investment does not change depending on whether they have chosen you or not. Why has your decision whether to pursue it changed? (Full disclosure: I've been rejected 4 times from YCombinator. Also rejected from FriendFeed, LikeALittle, Twitter, and Harvard. Stupidly passed up DropBox. Accepted by Amherst and Google. My opinion of any of them has not changed based on whether or not they rejected me. I haven't applied to YC since SFP08, but that's because my interests at present lie more in technology than in startups, and other opportunities have been available to me in that area. That does not mean I would not apply to YC again should I have a burning desire to start a company.)
  - opaas 16y ago
    Please reread my post in context to the post I was replying to. That should help you understand. Also, it is not about rejection. As I mentioned, in my original post, most successful people fail, on average 6 times first, let alone simply get rejected by a potential investor before they have their big success. Rejection is part of the road the road to success. Also, if you took away from my post that I am giving up, I probably could have been clearer. I am not giving up. I am not even giving up on investors. I am just staying clear of "micro-investors." Simply put, the time spent to present yourself the way micro investors want you to is simply not worth it in my opinion. If you are a programmer, the "special case" is not worth it :) The time is better spent working on the product/service/company. It is just a business decision.

potomak 16y ago

This is democracy, cool!

dstein 16y ago
You mean anti-establishment.

chr15 16y ago

YC has repeatedly said they care much more about the founding team than the idea. It's a sound principle. A strong team is probably the minimum you need. Just apply. Don't disqualify yourself. It doesn't take long and you have nothing to lose. But your expectations shouldn't be too high, especially after posting something like this. BTW, I have no idea what OPAAS does. Maybe that's the problem.

opaas 16y ago
OPaaS is "Open Platform as a Service." Just think "Platform as a Service" but open. Yes, there are some good solid principles at Y Combinator. I agree. To apply in a way I think is thorough, takes at least 8 hours of work - a day's work. That's doing the videos and providing cogent responses to all the questions. Sure you can do it in 20 minutes if you want to rush through, but I don't do that. Now a day's work is not a great amount. However, the problem is that it is a "special case" application that really can't be reused. Y Combinator wants you to tailor an in-depth presentation for them. That's fine. More power to them. However, it says something to me that in return they offer zero feedback. Zero.
- flignats 16y ago
  8 hours of work for a program like Ycomb is not a lot of work. You can find the time to do it. Plus, you could have shot the video with your camera phone and they would have been fine with it - as long as you were witty and accomplished the goal of the video.
- maxharris 16y ago
  Just think "Platform as a Service" but open. I don't know what "platform as a service" means. I watched the video on the right side of the page, and I still don't understand. Edit: I looked it up on Wikipedia. I still don't really get what this is about.
JoshKalkbrenner 16y ago
Does anyone know: did or would YC release a list of the universities accepted team members graduated from, or went to at time of acceptance?

nostrademons 16y ago

Meta side note: Why is this not on the front page? It has more upvotes, more comments, and was posted more recently than several things that are, I don't see a [dead] next to it, and yet it's sitting at #67.

g0atbutt 16y ago
Articles that don't include a link (like ask hn for example) require more velocity to hit the front page.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  I wonder if it's more than that, and the formula was changed lately. "U.S. Missiles Strike Libya", 9 points 33 minutes ago and a link to NYTimes.com, is now at #67, while this is at #46. It used to be that 3-4 points (albeit at non-primetime) was enough to get an article onto the front page.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
bconway 16y ago
FWIW, this is the kind of thing I tried to pick out in my "Underrateds" HN feeds. http://bconway.posterous.com/hacker-news-feeds-rolling-time-windows-and-di http://bconway.posterous.com/hacker-news-feeds-rolling-time-...

mwerty 16y ago

A better strategy would be to cap your time investment to something you are comfortable with.

notJim 16y ago

Just some feedback on your website: I went to it, and on the home page, I have basically no idea what it is or does, and there's really nothing that hooks me into looking into it more. And actually, now that I look at it, there aren't even links to click on that would answer these questions. I'm guessing you guys are competing with something like EC2 or heroku. Compare your site to heroku.com. The first thing I see is "Rock-solid ruby platform", underneath which it says "Deploy and scale powerful apps." There is a "how it works" link at the top that tells me more.

opaas 16y ago
Thank you for the feedback. As a developer, I usually look for a link that says something like "developer" "sdk" "api" or what not. We have a "developer" link on their, albeit small as the main purpose of the site is for consumer to discover and buy Open Apps. They thinking is that if there is a bunch of developer call outs on the home page, it might confuse consumers. There is also an "About" link. Do you think the "developer"and "About" links should be more prominent? I'm curious are you familiar with Platform as a Service (PaaS?) Thanks again for your feedback.

plamb 16y ago

One of the nice things about YC is that they're willing to have an open, public application process. I'm sure you can imagine that supporting that means they personally waste tons of their own time reading applications that don't come close to cutting it. For new entrepreneurs that don't have great connections to investor communities, this is one of the few avenues for getting their ideas vetted by an experienced group of people.

opaas 16y ago
What do you mean by "open, public application process?" I don't see anything "open" about it. Last time I checked (last year) there was not even a list of applicants. I'm curious, how would an "open" process differ from a "closed, non-public process?" Waste their time? They read applications so they can find the ones they think are going to make them a lot of money. It is a necessary step needed for them to make money. I'm not sure what your point is. You feel bad they have to read applications they themselves solicit in order for them to make money? Should someone else read them for them and they do nothing during the application process? Getting their ideas vetted? Y Combinator gives zero feedback to applicants, leaving them in the dark as to why they were rejected. How does that help? Any vetting process I ever saw gave a "report" or at least some information as to why or why not a candidate was approved or not. Y Combinator does neither. As you said, they spend enormous amounts of time reading the applications (for their benefit) but zero time providing any feedback whatsoever for the applicants benefit. What does that tell you? Does that sound like an entity who is truly trying to help the developers? What do you take away or learn from that? What value does that have?
- plamb 16y ago
  What I meant by 'public, open application process' is that anyone can apply and get their ideas reviewed by very smart people whereas many VC's/Angels won't even glance at you until you're referred by someone they know. PG has openly stated that the overwhelming majority of the time, it's not that you have a bad startup idea where he can just list of a bunch of reasons why you didn't make it, but rather that other people just simply had better startup ideas. I'm pretty sure the companies they invest in are made publicly available, so it would be easy to see what better ideas are out there.

alexl 16y ago

I find it sooooooo ironic that I'm stumbling upon this post now. I just published my last YC submission and then posted it here on HN. You might want to read it, opaas :) (if you think it's spam, just don't click the link, okay? :)) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2361753 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2361753