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>but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving There is so much about Am

>but the more I've thought about it over the years, the more I've realized there's almost no aspect of American life worth preserving There is so much about America that is worth preserving. One easy example right off the top of my head is the law and culture that enables people to peacefully demonstrate like they are today. Even discussing the idea of doing this in many countries could get you killed - or worse! That's another amazing thing (again, just off the top of my head), in America the worst punishment we have is death, and even that is outlawed in many places. The idea of an internment camp[0][1] is not even considered. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_re-education_camps [1] https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/9/17/20861427/india-assam-citizenship-muslim-detention-camps https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/9/17/20861427/india-...

grecy 6y ago
Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully. Recent events are proving the First Amendment sounds great on paper, but is utterly worthless when people actually try to exercise that right.
- xu44 6y ago
  Let's just ignore the scores of videos of businesses being looted, cars being flipped, places set on fire or the killing of David Dorn.
  - yawaramin 6y ago
    Time to choose a priority: more important to stop the roadside executions of Black people by cops, or to stop 'looting'?
    - xu44 6y ago
      Strawman
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    What does that have to do with "Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully." Those are two different groups of people.
jeffbee 6y ago
Sure, we don't _currently_ have internment camps, but we used to have them and the current president, when asked point blank by Time magazine, refused to rule out using WW2-style internment camps for muslims. So there's that. Freedom of expression is one of those things that I'd prefer to keep, but we can see that it is stronger on paper than in practice. In practice, if you gather in the capital city to bring your grievances to the government, unidentifiable mercenaries will gas you. And if you are a journalist reporting in front of your local police station some cop will shoot you in the head with "non-lethal" rubber ball, leaving you without eyes, or teeth. It is the institutions of American that need to be dismantled, because are an implementation that doesn't reflect the founding ideals of our country.
throwanem 6y ago
> The idea of an internment camp is not even considered. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/ice-detention-coronavirus-violence-hunger-strikes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/ice-detention-coronavirus-... https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfe... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac... https://archive.is/bxmYQ https://archive.is/bxmYQ [WaPo]
- chipperyman573 6y ago
  Those are for people who are specifically not here legally and therefore don't recieve the full protection of our constitution and laws. While I vehemently disagree with these camps, there's no reason to assume a re-born America's laws would apply to people who are not citizens/legally accepted into its borders. A fix for these camps would be to guarantee the same protections we Americans enjoy to people who come here illegally, which can be accomplished using the current framework we have today.
  - cryptoz 6y ago
    > Those are for people who are specifically not here legally and therefore don't recieve the full protection of our constitution and laws Do you have a citation on that? I don't think that's true. ICE detains a lot of people here legally, including citizens. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+citizens+in+ice+detention https://www.google.com/search?q=american+citizens+in+ice+det... Regardless, ICE should be obeying international laws for human rights, which they are not. It seems to me that ICE is meant to intimidate entire groups of people regardless of their citizenship or legal status.
  - malnourish 6y ago
    There is ongoing legal debate on what aspects, including these very ones, of our constitution and laws apply to non residents.
  - def8cefe 6y ago
asjw 6y ago
> One easy example right off the top of my head is the law and culture that enables people to peacefully demonstrate If you compare that right to any other country in the West, it doesn't look so peaceful and free.
glangdale 6y ago
I can only assume you've awakened, Rip Van Winkle style, from a extended sleep - not only one so long you missed dozens of people getting severely assaulted by the police and hundreds of people being held for extended periods of time (>24 hours) without charge, but so long that you apparently also missed the internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II. You also missed Trump musing on the idea of Muslim internment camps, so "not even considered" is a long bow. We might also include "kids in cages" while we're at it. There are plenty other worse countries, but this seems like a rather low standard for a victory lap ("Freer than China! Less repressive than Belarus!").

grecy 6y ago

Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully. Recent events are proving the First Amendment sounds great on paper, but is utterly worthless when people actually try to exercise that right.

xu44 6y ago
Let's just ignore the scores of videos of businesses being looted, cars being flipped, places set on fire or the killing of David Dorn.
- yawaramin 6y ago
  Time to choose a priority: more important to stop the roadside executions of Black people by cops, or to stop 'looting'?
  - xu44 6y ago
    Strawman
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  What does that have to do with "Scores of videos in the last week show police brutally beating regular citizens who have assembled peacefully." Those are two different groups of people.

jeffbee 6y ago

Sure, we don't _currently_ have internment camps, but we used to have them and the current president, when asked point blank by Time magazine, refused to rule out using WW2-style internment camps for muslims. So there's that. Freedom of expression is one of those things that I'd prefer to keep, but we can see that it is stronger on paper than in practice. In practice, if you gather in the capital city to bring your grievances to the government, unidentifiable mercenaries will gas you. And if you are a journalist reporting in front of your local police station some cop will shoot you in the head with "non-lethal" rubber ball, leaving you without eyes, or teeth. It is the institutions of American that need to be dismantled, because are an implementation that doesn't reflect the founding ideals of our country.

throwanem 6y ago

> The idea of an internment camp is not even considered. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/ice-detention-coronavirus-violence-hunger-strikes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/us/ice-detention-coronavirus-... https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfectant-causing-bleeding-and-pain-2020-6 https://www.insider.com/report-detention-centers-use-disinfe... https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-facilities/593239/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/border-fac... https://archive.is/bxmYQ https://archive.is/bxmYQ [WaPo]

chipperyman573 6y ago
Those are for people who are specifically not here legally and therefore don't recieve the full protection of our constitution and laws. While I vehemently disagree with these camps, there's no reason to assume a re-born America's laws would apply to people who are not citizens/legally accepted into its borders. A fix for these camps would be to guarantee the same protections we Americans enjoy to people who come here illegally, which can be accomplished using the current framework we have today.
- cryptoz 6y ago
  > Those are for people who are specifically not here legally and therefore don't recieve the full protection of our constitution and laws Do you have a citation on that? I don't think that's true. ICE detains a lot of people here legally, including citizens. https://www.google.com/search?q=american+citizens+in+ice+detention https://www.google.com/search?q=american+citizens+in+ice+det... Regardless, ICE should be obeying international laws for human rights, which they are not. It seems to me that ICE is meant to intimidate entire groups of people regardless of their citizenship or legal status.
- malnourish 6y ago
  There is ongoing legal debate on what aspects, including these very ones, of our constitution and laws apply to non residents.
- def8cefe 6y ago

asjw 6y ago

> One easy example right off the top of my head is the law and culture that enables people to peacefully demonstrate If you compare that right to any other country in the West, it doesn't look so peaceful and free.

glangdale 6y ago

I can only assume you've awakened, Rip Van Winkle style, from a extended sleep - not only one so long you missed dozens of people getting severely assaulted by the police and hundreds of people being held for extended periods of time (>24 hours) without charge, but so long that you apparently also missed the internment of Japanese-Americans in World War II. You also missed Trump musing on the idea of Muslim internment camps, so "not even considered" is a long bow. We might also include "kids in cages" while we're at it. There are plenty other worse countries, but this seems like a rather low standard for a victory lap ("Freer than China! Less repressive than Belarus!").