6 ms·

2018 FBI homicide statistics: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr

2018 FBI homicide statistics: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-... 514 black-on-white homicides, 234 white-on-black homicides.

eganist 6y ago
So in other words, once the data is normalized against census population figures, for every 10 million Black people in the US, ~53 of them were victimized, whereas for every 10 million White people in the US, ~26 were victimized. See how stats can be turned around? Please discontinue your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- axguscbklp 6y ago
  The thing is, normalizing against population figures goes both ways. Yes, in incidents of white-on-black or black-on-white homicide, for every 10 million white people in the US, ~26 were victimized whereas ~53 for every 10 million black people. But there are more than 4 times as many white people as black people in the country. It is of course a drastic simplification, but if we roughly say that the average black person interacts with 4 times as many white people as with other black people and the average white person interacts with 1/4 times as many black people as with other white people, then the fact that the average white person is only roughly half as likely to be the victim of a homicide by a black offender as a black person is likely to be the victim of a white offender does not seem to me to support your point.
  - eganist 6y ago
    > if we roughly say that the average black person interacts with 4 times as many white people as with other black people and the average white person interacts with 1/4 times as many black people as with other white people, then the fact that the average white person is only roughly half as likely to be the victim of a homicide by a black offender as a black person is likely to be the victim of a white offender does not seem to me to support your point. Italicized is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man designed to undermine the struggle Black Americans face. I'm disengaging. Goodbye.
    - n9 6y ago
      Pretty typical of everyone that I have (anecdotally) ever met who contends that black violence on whites is the primary issue. They say one thing based on their intuition and when they hear any response that complicates their view they are out to lunch. A lack of curiosity about your own biases is not a great look. Also worth noting is that the term homicide can only be applied by law enforcement, whose systemic bias against people of color is.. you know, the topic of the day. It does not include many or most of the cases of wrongfully being killed by law enforcement and it certainly doesn't include the illegal killing of people in other countries by our armed forces. I would be very interested in seeing these numbers included.
      - eganist 6y ago
        > Pretty typical of everyone that I have (anecdotally) ever met who contends that black violence on whites is the primary issue. Wait, is this directed to me, or to the comment above me? Because I'm arguing the exact opposite of this, specifically that focusing on and misrepresenting Black-on-White violence takes away from the struggle against oppression endured by the Black community. It's the OP I'm replying to who's been arguing the Black-on-White violence angle. I'm merely pointing out that they're using a strawman to defend it and that I have no intention of staying engaged when there are a broad array of fallacies being employed one after another. You and I are on the same page.
        n9 6y ago
        sigh. i see that now. mea culpa.
  - metrokoi 6y ago
    Yes, if my math is correct the number of whites victimized by blacks should be ~10 per 10 million if crime was affected by percentage of the population alone since whites are 70 percent of the pop. and blacks 12. Of course pure statistics should not be the only way of looking at the world.
danbolt 6y ago
How do you feel about those numbers compared to the intra-racial ones listed in the same table?
fzeroracer 6y ago
This really only works if you consider said statistics to be reported in good faith. Black Americans tend to be disproportionately targeted by law enforcement and disproportionately punished. For example, black Americans are around four times as likely to be charged for Marijuana offenses compared to white people despite using marijuana at equal rates. White-on-black crimes I would argue are far less likely to be reported, especially apparent by the bias that the police employ against black people.
- kortilla 6y ago
  We’re talking about murders here. It’s pretty hard to hide that a person no longer exists.
  - achenatx 6y ago
    This people keep pointing to black incarceration rates as a symptom of a racist judicial system. When debating I focus on murder victims as that has nothing to do with the racist judicial system. Still there is a problem with government tyranny and it doesnt matter if it is just a handful of people. Being killed by a thug vs being killed by the govt really are two different things even if you are just as dead either way.
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    It's pretty easy to lie about it and say you were 'afraid for your life' or 'he charged at me' though, as we've seen in multiple high-profile murders of black people. It's almost like that's what kicked off this entire protest. If you're not charged for murder, then it doesn't get reported.

eganist 6y ago

So in other words, once the data is normalized against census population figures, for every 10 million Black people in the US, ~53 of them were victimized, whereas for every 10 million White people in the US, ~26 were victimized. See how stats can be turned around? Please discontinue your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

axguscbklp 6y ago
The thing is, normalizing against population figures goes both ways. Yes, in incidents of white-on-black or black-on-white homicide, for every 10 million white people in the US, ~26 were victimized whereas ~53 for every 10 million black people. But there are more than 4 times as many white people as black people in the country. It is of course a drastic simplification, but if we roughly say that the average black person interacts with 4 times as many white people as with other black people and the average white person interacts with 1/4 times as many black people as with other white people, then the fact that the average white person is only roughly half as likely to be the victim of a homicide by a black offender as a black person is likely to be the victim of a white offender does not seem to me to support your point.
- eganist 6y ago
  > if we roughly say that the average black person interacts with 4 times as many white people as with other black people and the average white person interacts with 1/4 times as many black people as with other white people, then the fact that the average white person is only roughly half as likely to be the victim of a homicide by a black offender as a black person is likely to be the victim of a white offender does not seem to me to support your point. Italicized is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man designed to undermine the struggle Black Americans face. I'm disengaging. Goodbye.
  - n9 6y ago
    Pretty typical of everyone that I have (anecdotally) ever met who contends that black violence on whites is the primary issue. They say one thing based on their intuition and when they hear any response that complicates their view they are out to lunch. A lack of curiosity about your own biases is not a great look. Also worth noting is that the term homicide can only be applied by law enforcement, whose systemic bias against people of color is.. you know, the topic of the day. It does not include many or most of the cases of wrongfully being killed by law enforcement and it certainly doesn't include the illegal killing of people in other countries by our armed forces. I would be very interested in seeing these numbers included.
    - eganist 6y ago
      > Pretty typical of everyone that I have (anecdotally) ever met who contends that black violence on whites is the primary issue. Wait, is this directed to me, or to the comment above me? Because I'm arguing the exact opposite of this, specifically that focusing on and misrepresenting Black-on-White violence takes away from the struggle against oppression endured by the Black community. It's the OP I'm replying to who's been arguing the Black-on-White violence angle. I'm merely pointing out that they're using a strawman to defend it and that I have no intention of staying engaged when there are a broad array of fallacies being employed one after another. You and I are on the same page.
      - n9 6y ago
        sigh. i see that now. mea culpa.
- metrokoi 6y ago
  Yes, if my math is correct the number of whites victimized by blacks should be ~10 per 10 million if crime was affected by percentage of the population alone since whites are 70 percent of the pop. and blacks 12. Of course pure statistics should not be the only way of looking at the world.

danbolt 6y ago

How do you feel about those numbers compared to the intra-racial ones listed in the same table?

fzeroracer 6y ago

This really only works if you consider said statistics to be reported in good faith. Black Americans tend to be disproportionately targeted by law enforcement and disproportionately punished. For example, black Americans are around four times as likely to be charged for Marijuana offenses compared to white people despite using marijuana at equal rates. White-on-black crimes I would argue are far less likely to be reported, especially apparent by the bias that the police employ against black people.

kortilla 6y ago
We’re talking about murders here. It’s pretty hard to hide that a person no longer exists.
- achenatx 6y ago
  This people keep pointing to black incarceration rates as a symptom of a racist judicial system. When debating I focus on murder victims as that has nothing to do with the racist judicial system. Still there is a problem with government tyranny and it doesnt matter if it is just a handful of people. Being killed by a thug vs being killed by the govt really are two different things even if you are just as dead either way.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  It's pretty easy to lie about it and say you were 'afraid for your life' or 'he charged at me' though, as we've seen in multiple high-profile murders of black people. It's almost like that's what kicked off this entire protest. If you're not charged for murder, then it doesn't get reported.