4 ms·

If there are no regularities whatsoever in the environment, how could an organism possibly form and survive?

whatshisface 6y ago
"No regularities" is one of those things that sounds like it's saying something, but isn't. What does it mean, the laws of physics change every 5 minutes?
- canjobear 6y ago
  It means that the environment at time t is totally unpredictable given the environment at time t-1. If you imagine that the universe at time t is described as a string of random bits, and the universe at time t-1 is also described as a string of random bits, it means that you can't predict any of the bits at t given the bits at t-1. That's what it would mean for nature to be "algorithmically random" in the sense of the paper.
  - goldenkey 6y ago
    Well the organism IS part of the environment. So it wouldn't be able to encode anything if all it consists of is noise..remember.. we aren't separate from physics...we embody it.
maxerickson 6y ago
Life is a noise ratchet.
eveningcoffee 6y ago
This was also my question. Obviously there should be some regularity for an organism to form. But lets assume that the environment for an organism is indistinguishable from the random noise. Then the only strategy the organism can form is to randomly sample the environment for food. If there is enough food in the environment then the organism survives, if not then it does not survive. Therefor it is disproven that an organisms can survive only in predictable environments. It could be probably displayed that any more complex strategy could be not developed though.
- canjobear 6y ago
  If the environment is noisy at a low-enough level then it won't have enough stability for there to be consistently-metabolizable molecules around at all.
- jkhdigital 6y ago
  Except that organisms are generally not ergodic systems, so they are subject to gambler’s ruin. Even with “enough” food the probability of non-survival is non-zero and asymptotically increasing over time.

"No regularities" is one of those things that sounds like it's saying something, but isn't. What does it mean, the laws of physics change every 5 minutes?

canjobear 6y ago
It means that the environment at time t is totally unpredictable given the environment at time t-1. If you imagine that the universe at time t is described as a string of random bits, and the universe at time t-1 is also described as a string of random bits, it means that you can't predict any of the bits at t given the bits at t-1. That's what it would mean for nature to be "algorithmically random" in the sense of the paper.
- goldenkey 6y ago
  Well the organism IS part of the environment. So it wouldn't be able to encode anything if all it consists of is noise..remember.. we aren't separate from physics...we embody it.

maxerickson 6y ago

Life is a noise ratchet.

eveningcoffee 6y ago

This was also my question. Obviously there should be some regularity for an organism to form. But lets assume that the environment for an organism is indistinguishable from the random noise. Then the only strategy the organism can form is to randomly sample the environment for food. If there is enough food in the environment then the organism survives, if not then it does not survive. Therefor it is disproven that an organisms can survive only in predictable environments. It could be probably displayed that any more complex strategy could be not developed though.

canjobear 6y ago
If the environment is noisy at a low-enough level then it won't have enough stability for there to be consistently-metabolizable molecules around at all.
jkhdigital 6y ago
Except that organisms are generally not ergodic systems, so they are subject to gambler’s ruin. Even with “enough” food the probability of non-survival is non-zero and asymptotically increasing over time.