3 ms·

I didn't say all officers need weapons. But domestic violence calls are notably dangerous, with high tempers and intoxicated people involved. Irrational violenc

I didn't say all officers need weapons. But domestic violence calls are notably dangerous, with high tempers and intoxicated people involved. Irrational violence should be anticipated in those situations. Officers writing parking violations might not need firearms, but traffic stops are also dangerous as individuals with outstanding warrants might be desperate to avoid arrest. Also, intoxicated people are famously bad drivers.

chrisseaton 6y ago
I just don't get this. Bringing a gun to a domestic dispute or a simple traffic stop sounds like lunacy and a lethal escalation to me.
- humanrebar 6y ago
  This is all things I have been told by people I personally believe. I'm open to statistical evidence either way on the particulars.
- dingaling 6y ago
  I saw this recently in a nearby domestic dispute in Northern Ireland, which still routinely arms constables. The antagonist had a kitchen knife and the first responding policewoman drew her pistol. But what now? She had gone straight to the lethal option and had no other recourse. The antagonist became more aggressive to defend himself. Her colleague thankfully disarmed him with use of a truncheon.
  - cconover 6y ago
    > She had gone straight to the lethal option and had no other recourse. Not true. I presume that PSNI, like any law enforcement agency in the U.S., operates with some form of a use of force continuum that ranges from officer presence to deadly force. One of the most important aspects of that continuum that is taught to officers is that you can move up and down the continuum as the situation dictates. If you draw your sidearm you are not obligated to remain at that level of the use of force continuum. You should continue to make every effort to gain control of the situation, and deescalate. At the same time, you are not obligated to use a lower level of force than that which you are facing, and a kitchen knife is a deadly weapon. It's very much a training issue as much as anything to educate officers in deescalation techniques, less-lethal weapons and control techniques, and scene management to minimize casualties. In the situation you describe though, it was absolutely appropriate for her to draw her sidearm, while still doing everything in her power to regain control of the situation so that she would not need to use it.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      > Not true. I presume that PSNI, like any law enforcement agency in the U.S., operates with some form of a use of force continuum that ranges from officer presence to deadly force. That's not what the person you're replying to means. They mean despite what other options the officer had available to them, they had already reached for the lethal option (drawing their pistol) and from there had nowhere to go but threatening to kill or actually killing. As soon as an officer turns up with a firearm, you have irreversibly escalated the situation to out-of-control insanity.

chrisseaton 6y ago

I just don't get this. Bringing a gun to a domestic dispute or a simple traffic stop sounds like lunacy and a lethal escalation to me.

humanrebar 6y ago
This is all things I have been told by people I personally believe. I'm open to statistical evidence either way on the particulars.
dingaling 6y ago
I saw this recently in a nearby domestic dispute in Northern Ireland, which still routinely arms constables. The antagonist had a kitchen knife and the first responding policewoman drew her pistol. But what now? She had gone straight to the lethal option and had no other recourse. The antagonist became more aggressive to defend himself. Her colleague thankfully disarmed him with use of a truncheon.
- cconover 6y ago
  > She had gone straight to the lethal option and had no other recourse. Not true. I presume that PSNI, like any law enforcement agency in the U.S., operates with some form of a use of force continuum that ranges from officer presence to deadly force. One of the most important aspects of that continuum that is taught to officers is that you can move up and down the continuum as the situation dictates. If you draw your sidearm you are not obligated to remain at that level of the use of force continuum. You should continue to make every effort to gain control of the situation, and deescalate. At the same time, you are not obligated to use a lower level of force than that which you are facing, and a kitchen knife is a deadly weapon. It's very much a training issue as much as anything to educate officers in deescalation techniques, less-lethal weapons and control techniques, and scene management to minimize casualties. In the situation you describe though, it was absolutely appropriate for her to draw her sidearm, while still doing everything in her power to regain control of the situation so that she would not need to use it.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > Not true. I presume that PSNI, like any law enforcement agency in the U.S., operates with some form of a use of force continuum that ranges from officer presence to deadly force. That's not what the person you're replying to means. They mean despite what other options the officer had available to them, they had already reached for the lethal option (drawing their pistol) and from there had nowhere to go but threatening to kill or actually killing. As soon as an officer turns up with a firearm, you have irreversibly escalated the situation to out-of-control insanity.