4 ms·

I, much like I imagine you to be, grew up in a country where guns are restricted and rare. In the US, that's not the case and any attempts to restrict gun owne

by onei 6y ago

I, much like I imagine you to be, grew up in a country where guns are restricted and rare. In the US, that's not the case and any attempts to restrict gun ownership meets huge political hurdles. Even if those restrictions are what other countries would deem to be common sense, e.g. Switzerland or New Zealand. I think it's all kinds of crazy to sell guns in supermarkets with next to no checks on who owns them, but I get why police would want to have guns in the US.

chrisseaton 6y ago
Maybe criminals carry and use guns because they know the police have guns? Let's lower the stakes with what we do control - the police carrying guns.
- hirundo 6y ago
  People carry guns either to impose their will on other people or to avoid having other people's will imposed on themselves. Neither of those motivations go away if the police stop carrying guns.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    If the police aren't threatening to shoot you then you don't need a gun to shoot back.
    - hirundo 6y ago
      As if the police were the only such threat, and the crime that police are supposed to protect us from isn't significant. Without police, I'd be more inclined to carry and I don't think that would be unusual.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      This assumes criminals only carry guns to defend themselves against police shootings, which is obviously and amusingly incorrect.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > Maybe criminals carry and use guns because they know the police have guns? What? Of course criminals carry guns to threaten and harm other citizens, including other criminals. They aren’t principally concerned with defending themselves against the police.
jdkee 6y ago
“ sell guns in supermarkets with next to no checks on who owns them,“ This is false. One has to pass a federal background check and some states have additional checks and restrictions as well.
- ac29 6y ago
  They didnt say no checks, they said next to no checks. There actually are relatively few federal restrictions - effectively anyone who is not a criminal can purchase (most) guns legally [0] (some states are more strict, though). Compared to virtually every other country in the world, that is "next to no checks". Many states have no background checks at all for private sales [1], though that wouldn't apply to purchases from a supermarket. For example, contrast the UK, which in addition to outright banning most firearms such as handguns, requires a "good reason" to issue a firearms permit - and things like self defense are not considered acceptable reasons [2]. [0] https://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/gun-laws.html https://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/gun-laws.html [1] https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-g... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_the_United_Kingdom#Licensing_of_firearms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_the_Uni...
- onei 6y ago
  1. Sells guns in supermarkets. I searched for "Walmart guns" and got picture of guns on shelves on the Walmart website. I also found articles about panic buying ammunition during lockdown, and calls to reduce the range of guns on sale after various massacres. 2. Next to no checks. I looked at comments challenging my assertion and did a quick bit of research, finding articles such as [1] which suggests there are minimal checks that consume very little time. As far as I can tell, the checks are based on whether you've previously committed crimes which ignores whether you're likely to commit a crime with a gun in the future (such as the 2019 El Paso shooting). More alarmingly, I found suggestions that these checks are optional and performed at the discretion of the seller, although I didn't pursue it further to corroborate the claims. What about the quote was false? [1] https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gun-control-facts https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gun-control-facts
NoOneNew 6y ago
> sell guns in supermarkets with next to no checks on who owns them Yea, A, you might be able to get a single shot hunting rifle in a walmart in a rural part of the USA... but it may not work to begin with because it's a cheap piece of crap. You're really not going to buy some eggs, milk, loaf of bread and an AK in the same store in the USA. Stop believing bullshit. B, Neil Steinberg for the Chicago Sun Times believed the same thing of "no checks". He got denied a gun because he got picked up for beating his wife a few years prior. Then blamed the store for the deny. Which, a gun store clerk/owner is in full legal right to deny service to anyone, even if the customer qualifies. The DEA encourages them to deny and report people if they feel the customer is purchasing a gun for malice... except, Neil beat his wife after drinking too much booze. So the DEA denied him on that one. Lots of people think they can get easily approved for a gun and realize real quick they can't. I've been in gun stores plenty of times to see people apply, wait and get denied. Just like in countries where guns are illegal, you can buy guns on the black market. If you actually know cops in the USA, they generally like those with conceal permit licenses. It means they're not prior felons, they don't want to lose their gun or the license, thus don't want to do anything stupid. There are exceptions, just like with anything else. "Sovereign citizens" are a special class of complete stupid. But a majority of legal gun owners have zero interest in doing anything stupid. I already know all of this is unpopular opinion and I'll get lambasted by non-gun owners. Whatever.
- chkaloon 6y ago
  You can actually get some pretty quality handguns in some Walmarts, and Fred Meyer for that matter. And yes, background checks are required for most purchases. But not for private purchases or gun shows in most states. Doesn't need to be the "black market". and yes, I do own 4 handguns, 2 shotguns (for trap), and .30-06 for moose hunting, and have a concealed carry permit.
- xref 6y ago
  As a fellow gun owner, you’re making a lot of big claims but only supplying anecdotes. > you might be able to get a single shot hunting rifle in a walmart in a rural part of the USA... but it may not work to begin with because it's a cheap piece of crap. My nearest grocery store in a major city is bi-mart and I can pick up some very nice semi-auto pistols along with my local dairy’s milk > If you actually know cops in the USA, they generally like those with conceal permit licenses. The cops I know generally hate conceal permits because it gives holders an inflated sense of their abilities on how and when to use the weapon in a high stress situation Again, everyone’s got different anecdotes but they don’t make compelling arguments.

by onei 6y ago

chrisseaton 6y ago

Maybe criminals carry and use guns because they know the police have guns? Let's lower the stakes with what we do control - the police carrying guns.

hirundo 6y ago
People carry guns either to impose their will on other people or to avoid having other people's will imposed on themselves. Neither of those motivations go away if the police stop carrying guns.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  If the police aren't threatening to shoot you then you don't need a gun to shoot back.
  - hirundo 6y ago
    As if the police were the only such threat, and the crime that police are supposed to protect us from isn't significant. Without police, I'd be more inclined to carry and I don't think that would be unusual.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    This assumes criminals only carry guns to defend themselves against police shootings, which is obviously and amusingly incorrect.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
throwaway894345 6y ago
> Maybe criminals carry and use guns because they know the police have guns? What? Of course criminals carry guns to threaten and harm other citizens, including other criminals. They aren’t principally concerned with defending themselves against the police.

jdkee 6y ago

“ sell guns in supermarkets with next to no checks on who owns them,“ This is false. One has to pass a federal background check and some states have additional checks and restrictions as well.

ac29 6y ago
They didnt say no checks, they said next to no checks. There actually are relatively few federal restrictions - effectively anyone who is not a criminal can purchase (most) guns legally [0] (some states are more strict, though). Compared to virtually every other country in the world, that is "next to no checks". Many states have no background checks at all for private sales [1], though that wouldn't apply to purchases from a supermarket. For example, contrast the UK, which in addition to outright banning most firearms such as handguns, requires a "good reason" to issue a firearms permit - and things like self defense are not considered acceptable reasons [2]. [0] https://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/gun-laws.html https://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/gun-laws.html [1] https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-g... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_the_United_Kingdom#Licensing_of_firearms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_the_Uni...
onei 6y ago
1. Sells guns in supermarkets. I searched for "Walmart guns" and got picture of guns on shelves on the Walmart website. I also found articles about panic buying ammunition during lockdown, and calls to reduce the range of guns on sale after various massacres. 2. Next to no checks. I looked at comments challenging my assertion and did a quick bit of research, finding articles such as [1] which suggests there are minimal checks that consume very little time. As far as I can tell, the checks are based on whether you've previously committed crimes which ignores whether you're likely to commit a crime with a gun in the future (such as the 2019 El Paso shooting). More alarmingly, I found suggestions that these checks are optional and performed at the discretion of the seller, although I didn't pursue it further to corroborate the claims. What about the quote was false? [1] https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gun-control-facts https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/gun-control-facts

NoOneNew 6y ago

> sell guns in supermarkets with next to no checks on who owns them Yea, A, you might be able to get a single shot hunting rifle in a walmart in a rural part of the USA... but it may not work to begin with because it's a cheap piece of crap. You're really not going to buy some eggs, milk, loaf of bread and an AK in the same store in the USA. Stop believing bullshit. B, Neil Steinberg for the Chicago Sun Times believed the same thing of "no checks". He got denied a gun because he got picked up for beating his wife a few years prior. Then blamed the store for the deny. Which, a gun store clerk/owner is in full legal right to deny service to anyone, even if the customer qualifies. The DEA encourages them to deny and report people if they feel the customer is purchasing a gun for malice... except, Neil beat his wife after drinking too much booze. So the DEA denied him on that one. Lots of people think they can get easily approved for a gun and realize real quick they can't. I've been in gun stores plenty of times to see people apply, wait and get denied. Just like in countries where guns are illegal, you can buy guns on the black market. If you actually know cops in the USA, they generally like those with conceal permit licenses. It means they're not prior felons, they don't want to lose their gun or the license, thus don't want to do anything stupid. There are exceptions, just like with anything else. "Sovereign citizens" are a special class of complete stupid. But a majority of legal gun owners have zero interest in doing anything stupid. I already know all of this is unpopular opinion and I'll get lambasted by non-gun owners. Whatever.

chkaloon 6y ago
You can actually get some pretty quality handguns in some Walmarts, and Fred Meyer for that matter. And yes, background checks are required for most purchases. But not for private purchases or gun shows in most states. Doesn't need to be the "black market". and yes, I do own 4 handguns, 2 shotguns (for trap), and .30-06 for moose hunting, and have a concealed carry permit.
xref 6y ago
As a fellow gun owner, you’re making a lot of big claims but only supplying anecdotes. > you might be able to get a single shot hunting rifle in a walmart in a rural part of the USA... but it may not work to begin with because it's a cheap piece of crap. My nearest grocery store in a major city is bi-mart and I can pick up some very nice semi-auto pistols along with my local dairy’s milk > If you actually know cops in the USA, they generally like those with conceal permit licenses. The cops I know generally hate conceal permits because it gives holders an inflated sense of their abilities on how and when to use the weapon in a high stress situation Again, everyone’s got different anecdotes but they don’t make compelling arguments.