4 ms·

Bad analogy. Why are they going on holidays when they are going to lose their house? Cancel the travel and pay the mortgage.

roenxi 6y ago
That is part of the analogy too, I chose it with some care. And besides you'll have no trouble imagining a scenario where cancelling the travel wouldn't have helped. EDIT - And if they did that then they'd arguably be spending 100% of their budget for holidays on holidays.
- tchaffee 6y ago
  Canceling the travel wouldn't have helped who? For sure it would have helped the people they owe money to. Just because my own finances can't be saved doesn't mean it's vacation time and screw my lenders. So no, I cannot imagine a scenario where canceling the travel and attending to obligations would not help.
  - roenxi 6y ago
    Crikey. (1) That is a failure of imagination - maybe the breadwinner was run over by a car so the mortgage become unpayable, but up to that moment they were exemplary debtors. (2) Owing someone money doesn't mean suddenly a person is a debt slave who has to devote their whole life to the loan. They still get to discretion to make decisions about their own finances. (3) Forcing someone to live a life that spartan might increase the risk of them defaulting on the loan. Speaking as a tiny-sometime-lender, I wouldn't insist on that for anyone who I lend money to.
    - tchaffee 6y ago
      Analogies are like jokes. If you have to explain them... I stand by my original observation. It's a poor analogy.
      - roenxi 6y ago
        There is a real opportunity for you to learn here though. Don't compromise your quality of life out of some sort of misplaced feeling of loyalty to people who lend you money. It is a commercial contract and you should try to honour it, but you are allowed to live a full life even if you owe someone else money.
        JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        There's a name for not paying debts - deadbeat. No thanks.
        tchaffee 6y ago
        > There is a real opportunity for you to learn here though. That comes off as condescending. You assume I don't already have a set of well thought out values around debt that I am quite happy with. It's not that difficult. I just live the same way I would expect someone to live if they owe me money. That keeps me honest on both sides: I treat my debtors with empathy. And I treat my debts with the same seriousness of a contractual obligation that I would hope my own debtors do. But if you decide your five star hotel holiday can't somehow be downgraded to a smaller budget while simultaneously defaulting on loans, the average person will have zero sympathy. The problem with "allowed to live a full life" is that too many people define that as something that is far beyond their means.

roenxi 6y ago

That is part of the analogy too, I chose it with some care. And besides you'll have no trouble imagining a scenario where cancelling the travel wouldn't have helped. EDIT - And if they did that then they'd arguably be spending 100% of their budget for holidays on holidays.

tchaffee 6y ago
Canceling the travel wouldn't have helped who? For sure it would have helped the people they owe money to. Just because my own finances can't be saved doesn't mean it's vacation time and screw my lenders. So no, I cannot imagine a scenario where canceling the travel and attending to obligations would not help.
- roenxi 6y ago
  Crikey. (1) That is a failure of imagination - maybe the breadwinner was run over by a car so the mortgage become unpayable, but up to that moment they were exemplary debtors. (2) Owing someone money doesn't mean suddenly a person is a debt slave who has to devote their whole life to the loan. They still get to discretion to make decisions about their own finances. (3) Forcing someone to live a life that spartan might increase the risk of them defaulting on the loan. Speaking as a tiny-sometime-lender, I wouldn't insist on that for anyone who I lend money to.
  - tchaffee 6y ago
    Analogies are like jokes. If you have to explain them... I stand by my original observation. It's a poor analogy.
    - roenxi 6y ago
      There is a real opportunity for you to learn here though. Don't compromise your quality of life out of some sort of misplaced feeling of loyalty to people who lend you money. It is a commercial contract and you should try to honour it, but you are allowed to live a full life even if you owe someone else money.
      - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
        There's a name for not paying debts - deadbeat. No thanks.
      - tchaffee 6y ago
        > There is a real opportunity for you to learn here though. That comes off as condescending. You assume I don't already have a set of well thought out values around debt that I am quite happy with. It's not that difficult. I just live the same way I would expect someone to live if they owe me money. That keeps me honest on both sides: I treat my debtors with empathy. And I treat my debts with the same seriousness of a contractual obligation that I would hope my own debtors do. But if you decide your five star hotel holiday can't somehow be downgraded to a smaller budget while simultaneously defaulting on loans, the average person will have zero sympathy. The problem with "allowed to live a full life" is that too many people define that as something that is far beyond their means.