4 ms·

Nah. Voting isn't some divine representation of the will of the people; it's a feedback mechanism to push the governing apparatus toward goals that are benefici

Nah. Voting isn't some divine representation of the will of the people; it's a feedback mechanism to push the governing apparatus toward goals that are beneficial to the voting population, however halting or misguided the approach is. Some people voted for McCain over Obama; does that give them the moral, anti-war high ground, since Obama killed Libyans and McCain never had a chance to? Not at all. Nor does throwing away your vote by going third party, spoiling your ballot, or abstaining give you any particularly sympathetic reason to morally preen. Voting isn't a moral activity.

ses1984 6y ago
Voting isn't a moral activity, this is a really, really strange proposition that I am not sure I can accept. Don't morals factor into deciding what goals are beneficial to the population? (I'm not even sure I agree with the proposition that voting pushes the governing apparatus this way in many democracies including the USA)
- scarmig 6y ago
  > (I'm not even sure I agree with the proposition that voting pushes the governing apparatus this way in many democracies including the USA) I agree that it doesn't, but it's the intent. I don't think that's inherent to democracy, though, just the particular "democratic" structures that have evolved that we live with. > Don't morals factor into deciding what goals are beneficial to the population? As individuals, we can vote how we like, and everyone can and should use whatever individual morality they have to cast their vote (or not). But the act of voting doesn't mean that the voter has delegated their moral agency (and, with that, the potential for moral blame or praise) to the people in government. If I vote for someone who decides to do something monstrous, I may be an idiot if I mis-predicted that would be a result, but I discount attempts to put the moral blame for their actions onto me. This is a relatively unpopular view nowadays (because people see it as a way for Trump voters to distance themselves from Trump's actions), but a world that does assume voters bear moral responsibility for the actions of their government merely by the act of having voted for whoever is performing the actions is a world where it's impossible to be moral.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    I don't think I can agree with that argument. There is definitely a moral responsibility of the people to hold their governments accountable. I definitely see a responsibility of the German during the 3rd Reich to have a moral responsibility to what happened and the generation which did live during that time were justifiably challenged by their children about what they did or didn't do.
  - ses1984 6y ago
    What if a candidate runs on a monstrous platform and then implements exactly what they promised, is it ok to put any blame on those voters? I don't think in cases where voters are deceived it would be fair to blame them.
TopHand 6y ago
Voting for someone you don't want in office because you don't want that person's opponent in office even more is not throwing away your vote? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for breakfast!
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  No, the current system in the US is. What the US has is a democracy, not The Democracy™.

ses1984 6y ago

Voting isn't a moral activity, this is a really, really strange proposition that I am not sure I can accept. Don't morals factor into deciding what goals are beneficial to the population? (I'm not even sure I agree with the proposition that voting pushes the governing apparatus this way in many democracies including the USA)

scarmig 6y ago
> (I'm not even sure I agree with the proposition that voting pushes the governing apparatus this way in many democracies including the USA) I agree that it doesn't, but it's the intent. I don't think that's inherent to democracy, though, just the particular "democratic" structures that have evolved that we live with. > Don't morals factor into deciding what goals are beneficial to the population? As individuals, we can vote how we like, and everyone can and should use whatever individual morality they have to cast their vote (or not). But the act of voting doesn't mean that the voter has delegated their moral agency (and, with that, the potential for moral blame or praise) to the people in government. If I vote for someone who decides to do something monstrous, I may be an idiot if I mis-predicted that would be a result, but I discount attempts to put the moral blame for their actions onto me. This is a relatively unpopular view nowadays (because people see it as a way for Trump voters to distance themselves from Trump's actions), but a world that does assume voters bear moral responsibility for the actions of their government merely by the act of having voted for whoever is performing the actions is a world where it's impossible to be moral.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  I don't think I can agree with that argument. There is definitely a moral responsibility of the people to hold their governments accountable. I definitely see a responsibility of the German during the 3rd Reich to have a moral responsibility to what happened and the generation which did live during that time were justifiably challenged by their children about what they did or didn't do.
- ses1984 6y ago
  What if a candidate runs on a monstrous platform and then implements exactly what they promised, is it ok to put any blame on those voters? I don't think in cases where voters are deceived it would be fair to blame them.

TopHand 6y ago

Voting for someone you don't want in office because you don't want that person's opponent in office even more is not throwing away your vote? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to eat for breakfast!

wizzwizz4 6y ago
No, the current system in the US is. What the US has is a democracy, not The Democracy™.