4 ms·

With so many guns in the USA, I'm a bit surprised that people haven't started shooting the police...

loopz 6y ago
They're busy crimin', or staying in prison. Guess you're referring to criminals, and not non-violent protesters. Any escalation in violence, is a lost cause. Instead of focusing on extremists and extreme opinions, government and media should be there for every majority and minority. A partisan, is no leader of people.
- tartoran 6y ago
  The police are always escalating the violence. It’s their way of projecting their power. No wonder they are so “loved” back
  - loopz 6y ago
    Not always, but when it happens, it is mostly systemic.
irrational 6y ago
The kind of people that own guns also tend to be the kind of people who don't see anything wrong with police brutality.
- Maarten88 6y ago
  I saw an interview[1] with radio host Charlamagne tha God who seems to promote gun ownership to the black community. It’s sad to say, but I think that might actually be a smart way to promote better gun ownership laws in the US. Using racism against itself: black people (legally, openly) wearing guns might be a good (but really dangerous) argument against any people wearing guns. [1] https://youtu.be/5qxdCopOeJ4 https://youtu.be/5qxdCopOeJ4
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > It’s sad to say, but I think that might actually be a smart way to promote better gun ownership laws in the US. Using racism against itself: black people (legally, openly) wearing guns might be a good (but really dangerous) argument against any people wearing guns. Or it'll just be a way for black people to get shot and killed by police, just like black people having their hands up and not reaching for an object in their pocket which police erroneously believe to be a gun apparently is.
- fufmaya 6y ago
  That's a very low resolution picture you're painting. If we squint at that picture, we can see anything we want. A wide range of people own guns.
dragonwriter 6y ago
The guns in the US are largely owned by the same faction that supports and is executing the excessive police violence (and which gets a free pass for violent protest while the opposing faction is violently suppressed even when peacefully protesting); it's also the faction that has provocateurs actively creating violence around the current protest to create cover for violent “responses”.
- fufmaya 6y ago
  It looks like you are implying white gun owners are causing the riots, and that white gun owners are white nationalists. Can you clarify what you really mean or link to some evidence?
- drak0n1c 6y ago
  In Couer D'Alene conservative open-carry volunteers protected the protests and prevented any violence and confrontation from breaking out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIS4C7ym5YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIS4C7ym5YM If there is to be an alternative to the distant and aloof police state, it will have to be in the form of attentive and caring locals possessing sufficient enforcement power.
  - NotSammyHagar 6y ago
    I guess it could be way more people carrying guns, but eventually the police will start treating white people with guns like they treat black people (an excuse to kill them because the felt threatened). But the probably far more likely way to change policing is getting control of police forces,firing the cops, reconstituting them with real oversight and no special immunity.
sneak 6y ago
As was pointed out in sibling comments, most of the people who are the most upset with police are unarmed. The overlap between armed and police resistance is still small, but I hope it grows: not so that people can shoot at the police, but that so the balance of power shifts in a larger fashion and the police no longer feel safe in blatantly assaulting people, much the same way non-police feel now about attacking police with sticks and tear gas and “less lethal” projectiles. They don’t do it because they know their counterparty can and will immediately escalate to potentially lethal force. Counterintuitively, more arms results in more peace. The violence that is happening now results from the massive available-force imbalance. The police feel safe assaulting and murdering anyone they want, the only recourse against them being neutered by widespread co-conspirator testilying by LEOs. The average person will need to stop trusting unsubstantiated cop testimony (feds included) before the systemic racism starts to decline. I imagine that by the end of the year we will see lots of non-gun-owners beginning to question why all of the draconian restrictions on firearms ownership apply only to civilians and not the police. Good police or bad police (and we know it’s the latter), that is a huge power imbalance ripe for abuse.
- tedeh 6y ago
  Don't you think encouraging more gun ownership will merely encourage even more brutal police tactics in an ever accelerating downward spiral that may only end in another civil war? There has been a debate in the US the last decades about the increased militarisation of the police force, and to me the best idea seems that maybe both police and citizens should be increasingly disarmed rather than the other way around.
- maest 6y ago
  > Counterintuitively, more arms results in more peace. That's controversial at best. Arguably, part of the reason the police is so aggressive and distrustful when interacting with regular people is the higher gun density in the country. I mean, maybe if you chart violence (y axis) vs percentage of gun ownership (x axis), you get a bell curve and the US is in an awkward middle position. But that's a maybe, and, anyway, that means that both increasing and decreasing the number of weapons would reduce violence in that case.
NoahTheDuke 6y ago
People first have to believe that the cause (retribution, resistance, revolution, whatever you want to call it) is worth dying for, because the system (the cops, the media, the milquetoast white public) considers cop death to be the single worst crime and reacts with extreme vengeance and violence. If you were to try this, they would murder every last one of you – and harass or murder your families – even if you killed 5 cops for every one of you who died. (Just imagine the ending of Les Mis.) Hard for people to believe it’s worth it when the reply by the system is so harsh. On top of that, there are just so many officers in a given city. Killing one or two or three won’t make much of a difference but it will certainly make the rest worse overall.

They're busy crimin', or staying in prison. Guess you're referring to criminals, and not non-violent protesters. Any escalation in violence, is a lost cause. Instead of focusing on extremists and extreme opinions, government and media should be there for every majority and minority. A partisan, is no leader of people.

tartoran 6y ago
The police are always escalating the violence. It’s their way of projecting their power. No wonder they are so “loved” back
- loopz 6y ago
  Not always, but when it happens, it is mostly systemic.

irrational 6y ago

The kind of people that own guns also tend to be the kind of people who don't see anything wrong with police brutality.

Maarten88 6y ago
I saw an interview[1] with radio host Charlamagne tha God who seems to promote gun ownership to the black community. It’s sad to say, but I think that might actually be a smart way to promote better gun ownership laws in the US. Using racism against itself: black people (legally, openly) wearing guns might be a good (but really dangerous) argument against any people wearing guns. [1] https://youtu.be/5qxdCopOeJ4 https://youtu.be/5qxdCopOeJ4
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > It’s sad to say, but I think that might actually be a smart way to promote better gun ownership laws in the US. Using racism against itself: black people (legally, openly) wearing guns might be a good (but really dangerous) argument against any people wearing guns. Or it'll just be a way for black people to get shot and killed by police, just like black people having their hands up and not reaching for an object in their pocket which police erroneously believe to be a gun apparently is.
fufmaya 6y ago
That's a very low resolution picture you're painting. If we squint at that picture, we can see anything we want. A wide range of people own guns.

dragonwriter 6y ago

The guns in the US are largely owned by the same faction that supports and is executing the excessive police violence (and which gets a free pass for violent protest while the opposing faction is violently suppressed even when peacefully protesting); it's also the faction that has provocateurs actively creating violence around the current protest to create cover for violent “responses”.

fufmaya 6y ago
It looks like you are implying white gun owners are causing the riots, and that white gun owners are white nationalists. Can you clarify what you really mean or link to some evidence?
drak0n1c 6y ago
In Couer D'Alene conservative open-carry volunteers protected the protests and prevented any violence and confrontation from breaking out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIS4C7ym5YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIS4C7ym5YM If there is to be an alternative to the distant and aloof police state, it will have to be in the form of attentive and caring locals possessing sufficient enforcement power.
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  I guess it could be way more people carrying guns, but eventually the police will start treating white people with guns like they treat black people (an excuse to kill them because the felt threatened). But the probably far more likely way to change policing is getting control of police forces,firing the cops, reconstituting them with real oversight and no special immunity.

sneak 6y ago

As was pointed out in sibling comments, most of the people who are the most upset with police are unarmed. The overlap between armed and police resistance is still small, but I hope it grows: not so that people can shoot at the police, but that so the balance of power shifts in a larger fashion and the police no longer feel safe in blatantly assaulting people, much the same way non-police feel now about attacking police with sticks and tear gas and “less lethal” projectiles. They don’t do it because they know their counterparty can and will immediately escalate to potentially lethal force. Counterintuitively, more arms results in more peace. The violence that is happening now results from the massive available-force imbalance. The police feel safe assaulting and murdering anyone they want, the only recourse against them being neutered by widespread co-conspirator testilying by LEOs. The average person will need to stop trusting unsubstantiated cop testimony (feds included) before the systemic racism starts to decline. I imagine that by the end of the year we will see lots of non-gun-owners beginning to question why all of the draconian restrictions on firearms ownership apply only to civilians and not the police. Good police or bad police (and we know it’s the latter), that is a huge power imbalance ripe for abuse.

tedeh 6y ago
Don't you think encouraging more gun ownership will merely encourage even more brutal police tactics in an ever accelerating downward spiral that may only end in another civil war? There has been a debate in the US the last decades about the increased militarisation of the police force, and to me the best idea seems that maybe both police and citizens should be increasingly disarmed rather than the other way around.
maest 6y ago
> Counterintuitively, more arms results in more peace. That's controversial at best. Arguably, part of the reason the police is so aggressive and distrustful when interacting with regular people is the higher gun density in the country. I mean, maybe if you chart violence (y axis) vs percentage of gun ownership (x axis), you get a bell curve and the US is in an awkward middle position. But that's a maybe, and, anyway, that means that both increasing and decreasing the number of weapons would reduce violence in that case.

NoahTheDuke 6y ago

People first have to believe that the cause (retribution, resistance, revolution, whatever you want to call it) is worth dying for, because the system (the cops, the media, the milquetoast white public) considers cop death to be the single worst crime and reacts with extreme vengeance and violence. If you were to try this, they would murder every last one of you – and harass or murder your families – even if you killed 5 cops for every one of you who died. (Just imagine the ending of Les Mis.) Hard for people to believe it’s worth it when the reply by the system is so harsh. On top of that, there are just so many officers in a given city. Killing one or two or three won’t make much of a difference but it will certainly make the rest worse overall.