5 ms·

This is pretty awesome. For those who haven't explored ergonomic keyboards, 1) you should! take care of your hands! and 2) shit gets preeeeetty wild out there.

by ketzo 6y ago

This is pretty awesome. For those who haven't explored ergonomic keyboards, 1) you should! take care of your hands! and 2) shit gets preeeeetty wild out there. For further reading, check out ortholinear keyboards like the Planck [1], or crazier split designs like the ErgoDox EZ [2], or even "keywell" (or just "pit") designs like the Kinesis Advantage2 [3]. All require a learning curve (obviously!), but they offer some pretty immediately noticeable (in my experience) advantages for your hand health. One of my favorite design items are thumb clusters like you see on the last two links here: why should your thumb be limited to just spacebar, and why should both of your thumbs do the same thing? [1] https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/planck https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/planck [2] https://ergodox-ez.com/ https://ergodox-ez.com/ [3] https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
marinhero 6y ago
How’s the Planck keyboard ergonomic? Wouldn’t it make me wrist twist too?
- Palomides 6y ago
  it isn't, though proponents will argue that the small size means you move your hands/fingers less
- strombofulous 6y ago
  60% ortho boards reduce finger travel and reduce the horizontal travel, which is good (try moving your fingers up and down, then moving them left and right - it takes a lot more effort to move them left and right), but if you're going to invest in learning a new keyboard layout you should at least make sure it splits as well so that you don't need to bend your elbows and wrists. I would not recommend just getting an ortholinear board for ergonomics. They definitely look cool though.
  - garren 6y ago
    Amen. Also consider angling it as appropriate. In my experience the difference is pretty noticeable. Ergogox-ez has tent kits which are great. I picked up a couple of 3D printer angled risers that I use with my classic ergodox.
  - lawn 6y ago
    A non-split ortholinear board might even be worse as it causes you to bend your wrists even more than standard keyboards.
- garren 6y ago
  I picked up a Planck kit out of curiosity. I’ve always liked small keyboards. However, I have a hard time understanding how it could be considered ergonomically friendly compared to something like the ergodox. The board is so small that it keeps my wrists at at odd angle when typing. It’s small and convenient when I need a quick spare but I can’t type on it for long.
- Fwirt 6y ago
  A lot of people criticize the Planck for this, but I think the right way to type on a Planck is to treat it like its own beast. Rather than twisting your wrists to face the keyboard straight on, let them angle inward naturally. The grid layout means you don't have to contort your hands to reach the different rows, and if you let your hands "float" above the keyboard rather than putting pressure on your wrists it feels great. Another big mistake is using the default layout, part of the draw of a small layout is that you can customize the layers to your needs. It takes a couple weeks of getting used to but I loved mine so much I built a second one. I hate typing on a staggered layout now, it feels bizarre. That being said, I have no doubt a split layout is superior ergonomically, but it takes up way more space and is more complicated. I would love to try out a Dactyl-Manuform though.
strombofulous 6y ago
I have not heard good things about the ergodox's thumb keys. A lot of people say you need to stretch your thumbs pretty far to use them (even if you have big hands), which kind of works against the goal of not putting stress on your hands.
- garren 6y ago
  I’ve got the classic ergodox (a couple) as well as the ergodox-ez. I’ve been using ergodox for 5-6 years now and have never had an issue with the thumb cluster, but it takes some getting used to, and there is certainly room for improvement. I’m a huge fan of the split layout, and I feel that split layouts are probably a much more significant factor when it comes to reduction of hand stress.
- phaus 6y ago
  I have an Ergodox-EZ. The issue with the thumb keys is that its only natural or easy to hit the bottom 3 for most people. Some people can only hit the bottom 2. That being said, having 3 usable keys per thumb is a game changer IMO and its the best keyboard I've ever used by far. For the ones that are harder to hit I map stuff that I don't usually use often while typing like the escape key. I'm working building a Dactyl manuform. After I printed the case I put the keys in the thumb cluster and threw some keycaps on it to see how it works. IMO its far easier to use all 6 of the keys on the Dactyl's thumb cluster. Also, the dactyl is intended to be further customized per user, so you can actually find variants with less thumb cluster keys if for some reason you don't want them. Some people have even customized them to have trackball replace one of the thumb clusters. It took me about 3 weeks to get reasonably fast and confident typing on my Ergodox, after about 6 weeks I was pretty close to my original speed (approximately 120 WPM). IMO its worth the effort to learn and I will never go back to a keyboard without at least 3 keys per thumb cluster. There might be a more efficient layout, but what I use my easily accessible thumb keys for is space, return, backspace, win key/mac command and other modifiers. For something pretty similar to the Ergodox but with a better thumb cluster, there's the Keyboardio. However, they sold out of the initial run and they are supposedly going to be releasing a new revision soon.
- lawn 6y ago
ken 6y ago
I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard. It's bizarre that the fingers on my left hand would move slightly to the left for the top row, but the fingers on my right hand would also move slightly to the left for the top row. And to the right, on both hands, for the bottom row. Fingers don't naturally move like that! My hands have mirror symmetry. Why doesn't my keyboard? The number 6 exemplifies the problem. Touch-typing classes teach that it's pressed by the right hand, but the number row has drifted so far left that it's actually closer to the left hand. Sure enough, (non-ortho) split keyboards can't agree which side of the split to put it on. Sometimes even different models from the same company disagree. Staggered keys is even crazier, to me, than QWERTY. There's no spending 2 weeks relearning where every letter is. There's no messing up spatial mnemonics like Z/X/C/V. It just instantly fixes your fingers from being slightly out of alignment. And the craziest is when touchscreens do it. Keys were only staggered in that funny way to make room for the keylevers. Computer keyboards never had keylevers, but touchscreens really never had keylevers!
- jupp0r 6y ago
  > I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard. Same as querty: it’s there so typewriter stamps don’t hit each other.
- IronBacon 6y ago
  You aren't alone, the thing boggles my mind too. I like better staggered columns layout than ortholinear, but yeah staggered rows don't make any sense, I hate using the keyboard in my notebook. Joking, I would say only Apple could find the "courage" to introduce columns staggered/ortholinear keyboards... ^__~
  - ken 6y ago
    You joke, but I've wondered the same thing. Apple, of all companies, is happy to re-examine (or discard) the status quo. They dropped the headphone jack on many products -- as they said, it's "over 100 years old, used to help quickly exchange in switchboards". Yet their keyboards still look pretty much like a 19th-century Remington.

by ketzo 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

marinhero 6y ago

How’s the Planck keyboard ergonomic? Wouldn’t it make me wrist twist too?

Palomides 6y ago
it isn't, though proponents will argue that the small size means you move your hands/fingers less
strombofulous 6y ago
60% ortho boards reduce finger travel and reduce the horizontal travel, which is good (try moving your fingers up and down, then moving them left and right - it takes a lot more effort to move them left and right), but if you're going to invest in learning a new keyboard layout you should at least make sure it splits as well so that you don't need to bend your elbows and wrists. I would not recommend just getting an ortholinear board for ergonomics. They definitely look cool though.
- garren 6y ago
  Amen. Also consider angling it as appropriate. In my experience the difference is pretty noticeable. Ergogox-ez has tent kits which are great. I picked up a couple of 3D printer angled risers that I use with my classic ergodox.
- lawn 6y ago
  A non-split ortholinear board might even be worse as it causes you to bend your wrists even more than standard keyboards.
garren 6y ago
I picked up a Planck kit out of curiosity. I’ve always liked small keyboards. However, I have a hard time understanding how it could be considered ergonomically friendly compared to something like the ergodox. The board is so small that it keeps my wrists at at odd angle when typing. It’s small and convenient when I need a quick spare but I can’t type on it for long.
Fwirt 6y ago
A lot of people criticize the Planck for this, but I think the right way to type on a Planck is to treat it like its own beast. Rather than twisting your wrists to face the keyboard straight on, let them angle inward naturally. The grid layout means you don't have to contort your hands to reach the different rows, and if you let your hands "float" above the keyboard rather than putting pressure on your wrists it feels great. Another big mistake is using the default layout, part of the draw of a small layout is that you can customize the layers to your needs. It takes a couple weeks of getting used to but I loved mine so much I built a second one. I hate typing on a staggered layout now, it feels bizarre. That being said, I have no doubt a split layout is superior ergonomically, but it takes up way more space and is more complicated. I would love to try out a Dactyl-Manuform though.

strombofulous 6y ago

I have not heard good things about the ergodox's thumb keys. A lot of people say you need to stretch your thumbs pretty far to use them (even if you have big hands), which kind of works against the goal of not putting stress on your hands.

garren 6y ago
I’ve got the classic ergodox (a couple) as well as the ergodox-ez. I’ve been using ergodox for 5-6 years now and have never had an issue with the thumb cluster, but it takes some getting used to, and there is certainly room for improvement. I’m a huge fan of the split layout, and I feel that split layouts are probably a much more significant factor when it comes to reduction of hand stress.
phaus 6y ago
I have an Ergodox-EZ. The issue with the thumb keys is that its only natural or easy to hit the bottom 3 for most people. Some people can only hit the bottom 2. That being said, having 3 usable keys per thumb is a game changer IMO and its the best keyboard I've ever used by far. For the ones that are harder to hit I map stuff that I don't usually use often while typing like the escape key. I'm working building a Dactyl manuform. After I printed the case I put the keys in the thumb cluster and threw some keycaps on it to see how it works. IMO its far easier to use all 6 of the keys on the Dactyl's thumb cluster. Also, the dactyl is intended to be further customized per user, so you can actually find variants with less thumb cluster keys if for some reason you don't want them. Some people have even customized them to have trackball replace one of the thumb clusters. It took me about 3 weeks to get reasonably fast and confident typing on my Ergodox, after about 6 weeks I was pretty close to my original speed (approximately 120 WPM). IMO its worth the effort to learn and I will never go back to a keyboard without at least 3 keys per thumb cluster. There might be a more efficient layout, but what I use my easily accessible thumb keys for is space, return, backspace, win key/mac command and other modifiers. For something pretty similar to the Ergodox but with a better thumb cluster, there's the Keyboardio. However, they sold out of the initial run and they are supposedly going to be releasing a new revision soon.
lawn 6y ago

ken 6y ago

I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard. It's bizarre that the fingers on my left hand would move slightly to the left for the top row, but the fingers on my right hand would also move slightly to the left for the top row. And to the right, on both hands, for the bottom row. Fingers don't naturally move like that! My hands have mirror symmetry. Why doesn't my keyboard? The number 6 exemplifies the problem. Touch-typing classes teach that it's pressed by the right hand, but the number row has drifted so far left that it's actually closer to the left hand. Sure enough, (non-ortho) split keyboards can't agree which side of the split to put it on. Sometimes even different models from the same company disagree. Staggered keys is even crazier, to me, than QWERTY. There's no spending 2 weeks relearning where every letter is. There's no messing up spatial mnemonics like Z/X/C/V. It just instantly fixes your fingers from being slightly out of alignment. And the craziest is when touchscreens do it. Keys were only staggered in that funny way to make room for the keylevers. Computer keyboards never had keylevers, but touchscreens really never had keylevers!

jupp0r 6y ago
> I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard. Same as querty: it’s there so typewriter stamps don’t hit each other.
IronBacon 6y ago
You aren't alone, the thing boggles my mind too. I like better staggered columns layout than ortholinear, but yeah staggered rows don't make any sense, I hate using the keyboard in my notebook. Joking, I would say only Apple could find the "courage" to introduce columns staggered/ortholinear keyboards... ^__~
- ken 6y ago
  You joke, but I've wondered the same thing. Apple, of all companies, is happy to re-examine (or discard) the status quo. They dropped the headphone jack on many products -- as they said, it's "over 100 years old, used to help quickly exchange in switchboards". Yet their keyboards still look pretty much like a 19th-century Remington.