4 ms·

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

rayiner 6y ago
> Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. So that means fighting against the Green New Deal and people like AOC?
- kennywinker 6y ago
  You can fight against a green new deal without being fascist. But if you fight it by doing or allowing people to do things that undermine democracy, like say... withholding aid funds to coerce other nations to do things that hurt your political opponents... yeah, that leans towards fascism.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    No, I’m saying that, according to your link, fascism attacks liberal democracy and advocates for the “complete mobilization of society” to a single end. That’s exactly what the Green New Deal is.
    - supercanuck 6y ago
      The link is to wikipedia, if you think it is wrong, you could edit and submit that for review. You also add your insight on the Green New Deal being an example of facism.
    - kennywinker 6y ago
      Not my link. But it feels like you’re intentionally misunderstanding what fascism is to try to make a point. Yes, the green new deal is a mobilization of society to a single end. Is anyone attempting to use “dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition” to do it? No. Nobody is. Tigers are animals with stripes. Zebras are animals with stripes. A zebra is not a tiger. The green new deal could be part of a fascist movement, but it’s not.
    - tptacek 6y ago
      Obviously it can't be the case that any form of mobilization is equivalent to fascism. Societies mobilize all the time. According to Payne, fascism has a consistent goal of creating a new nationalist authoritarian state, with not simply a mobilization but a militarization of the populace --- a "mass party militia". There's a kind of "horseshoe theory of politics" thing that happens with observations about Soviet communism and Italian fascism. Both systems are bad, and they share specific bad characteristics. But they are not the same; in fact, they're antithetical to each other. I think the Green New Deal is poorly specified and ill-advised, but it is not Soviet communism and certainly not fascistic, and AOC is not a "charismatic authoritarian" in the fascist sense. It was a silly comparison to have made.

> Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete and regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. So that means fighting against the Green New Deal and people like AOC?

kennywinker 6y ago
You can fight against a green new deal without being fascist. But if you fight it by doing or allowing people to do things that undermine democracy, like say... withholding aid funds to coerce other nations to do things that hurt your political opponents... yeah, that leans towards fascism.
- rayiner 6y ago
  No, I’m saying that, according to your link, fascism attacks liberal democracy and advocates for the “complete mobilization of society” to a single end. That’s exactly what the Green New Deal is.
  - supercanuck 6y ago
    The link is to wikipedia, if you think it is wrong, you could edit and submit that for review. You also add your insight on the Green New Deal being an example of facism.
  - kennywinker 6y ago
    Not my link. But it feels like you’re intentionally misunderstanding what fascism is to try to make a point. Yes, the green new deal is a mobilization of society to a single end. Is anyone attempting to use “dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition” to do it? No. Nobody is. Tigers are animals with stripes. Zebras are animals with stripes. A zebra is not a tiger. The green new deal could be part of a fascist movement, but it’s not.
  - tptacek 6y ago
    Obviously it can't be the case that any form of mobilization is equivalent to fascism. Societies mobilize all the time. According to Payne, fascism has a consistent goal of creating a new nationalist authoritarian state, with not simply a mobilization but a militarization of the populace --- a "mass party militia". There's a kind of "horseshoe theory of politics" thing that happens with observations about Soviet communism and Italian fascism. Both systems are bad, and they share specific bad characteristics. But they are not the same; in fact, they're antithetical to each other. I think the Green New Deal is poorly specified and ill-advised, but it is not Soviet communism and certainly not fascistic, and AOC is not a "charismatic authoritarian" in the fascist sense. It was a silly comparison to have made.