5 ms·

There are parallels with the Gnome team's stance that "we know what's best for you", and that turns off a lot of linux users. There is a tension between those w

There are parallels with the Gnome team's stance that "we know what's best for you", and that turns off a lot of linux users. There is a tension between those who wish to turn linux into Mac OS or Windows, and those who want fine-grained control over the workings of their computer. The arrogance of the gnome team and the snap apologists is a huge red flag to me. I don't use Ubuntu or Gnome, and I'm glad linux provides me that choice.

gentleman11 6y ago
I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it
- ludamad 6y ago
  The problem is configuration churn. A lot of gnome2 stuff didn't carry over if I recall and had to be reinvented for gnome3
  - cg505 6y ago
    Gnome 3 has been out for 9 years now, which is longer than the time between the releases of Gnome 2 and 3. I don't think there is a lot of config churn. (It may have been worse in the early days of Gnome 3.)
- dilandau 6y ago
  You literally have to install a special tool to configure the look and feel. Did you miss the whole thing about how gnome devs don't want user themes to be supported? Or how they are forcing csd and dropping menus and config left and right? I'm guessing you weren't a gnome 2 user because it's night and day.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    Trying to explain to a non-technical user that GNOME doesn't let them reconfigure something because the GNOME developers think they're an idiot who will be confused by configurability is a nightmare. I ended up telling my dad to install XFCE and he's not looked back since. The problem isn't that GNOME devs are trying to make user friendly software for non-technical users; that intent is commendable. The problem is the GNOME devs have incredibly insulting opinions about the skills and intelligence of non-technical users.
    - D2187645 6y ago
      Yeah, its targeted for the ederly if you guys werent aware.
- lokedhs 6y ago
  How do you set the background colour in GNOME? At least in the recent versions I've tested, you literally can't. You can only set it to an image.
- slezyr 6y ago
  No. NO. You can't even change language shortcut from default (Win + Space). As I understand this comes from MacOS, which gnome devs brainlessly copy. https://askubuntu.com/questions/41480/how-do-i-change-my-keyboard-layout-in-gnome-shell https://askubuntu.com/questions/41480/how-do-i-change-my-key...
  - krastanov 6y ago
    Your example is dead wrong. I run Gnome and my language shortcut is CapsLock. I used the Tweaks configuration software which is part of Gnome (it is the one you are supposed to use for more invasive configuration). I do find Gnome plenty configurable. You just need to go in order of Settings -> Tweaks -> their weird registry -> custom extensions. I would agree this is convoluted, but I do not mind it (as a power user it took me 5 minutes to google how to do it, while it probably makes sense to have only the first state (Settings) visible by default).
    - nialv7 6y ago
      You do understand that them being extensions means they are not part of GNOME.
      - krastanov 6y ago
        You picked the 4th stage but conveniently skipped all 3 tools that precede it. The Tweaks tool is a GUI that is a part of Gnome and it deals with the examples that OP raised.
    - slezyr 6y ago
      Yup, you can all the miracles in the console, BUT reread the parent comment > I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it IT'S NOT CONFIGURABLE. You can hack your way around their "opinionated defaults" which are for MacOS user from USA. Take a look at the KDE's settings for this case https://i.stack.imgur.com/ukKmp.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/ukKmp.png There is no reason to google, install some tool and mess with it.
- Zardoz84 6y ago
  Compare against KDE and check how far is "configurable".
tssva 6y ago
Even Windows and macOS provide a higher level of configurability out of the box than Gnome does.
- guug 6y ago
  I recently switched all my systems to another desktop environment because an app I needed to run was buggy under gnome and gnome developers in their infinite wisdom decided to remove the setting needed to fix it. Mind you, the setting had existed in gnome shell for years. What gnome devs seemingly fail to realize is that gnome is only a means to an end (i.e. to run software). People /will/ switch to alternatives the moment that it fails to do it's job. The exact same thing applies to ubuntu.

gentleman11 6y ago

I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it

ludamad 6y ago
The problem is configuration churn. A lot of gnome2 stuff didn't carry over if I recall and had to be reinvented for gnome3
- cg505 6y ago
  Gnome 3 has been out for 9 years now, which is longer than the time between the releases of Gnome 2 and 3. I don't think there is a lot of config churn. (It may have been worse in the early days of Gnome 3.)
dilandau 6y ago
You literally have to install a special tool to configure the look and feel. Did you miss the whole thing about how gnome devs don't want user themes to be supported? Or how they are forcing csd and dropping menus and config left and right? I'm guessing you weren't a gnome 2 user because it's night and day.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Trying to explain to a non-technical user that GNOME doesn't let them reconfigure something because the GNOME developers think they're an idiot who will be confused by configurability is a nightmare. I ended up telling my dad to install XFCE and he's not looked back since. The problem isn't that GNOME devs are trying to make user friendly software for non-technical users; that intent is commendable. The problem is the GNOME devs have incredibly insulting opinions about the skills and intelligence of non-technical users.
  - D2187645 6y ago
    Yeah, its targeted for the ederly if you guys werent aware.
lokedhs 6y ago
How do you set the background colour in GNOME? At least in the recent versions I've tested, you literally can't. You can only set it to an image.
slezyr 6y ago
No. NO. You can't even change language shortcut from default (Win + Space). As I understand this comes from MacOS, which gnome devs brainlessly copy. https://askubuntu.com/questions/41480/how-do-i-change-my-keyboard-layout-in-gnome-shell https://askubuntu.com/questions/41480/how-do-i-change-my-key...
- krastanov 6y ago
  Your example is dead wrong. I run Gnome and my language shortcut is CapsLock. I used the Tweaks configuration software which is part of Gnome (it is the one you are supposed to use for more invasive configuration). I do find Gnome plenty configurable. You just need to go in order of Settings -> Tweaks -> their weird registry -> custom extensions. I would agree this is convoluted, but I do not mind it (as a power user it took me 5 minutes to google how to do it, while it probably makes sense to have only the first state (Settings) visible by default).
  - nialv7 6y ago
    You do understand that them being extensions means they are not part of GNOME.
    - krastanov 6y ago
      You picked the 4th stage but conveniently skipped all 3 tools that precede it. The Tweaks tool is a GUI that is a part of Gnome and it deals with the examples that OP raised.
  - slezyr 6y ago
    Yup, you can all the miracles in the console, BUT reread the parent comment > I find gnome to be pretty configurable. The opinionated defaults aren’t so bad because you can just replace the environment if you dislike it IT'S NOT CONFIGURABLE. You can hack your way around their "opinionated defaults" which are for MacOS user from USA. Take a look at the KDE's settings for this case https://i.stack.imgur.com/ukKmp.png https://i.stack.imgur.com/ukKmp.png There is no reason to google, install some tool and mess with it.
Zardoz84 6y ago
Compare against KDE and check how far is "configurable".

tssva 6y ago

Even Windows and macOS provide a higher level of configurability out of the box than Gnome does.

guug 6y ago
I recently switched all my systems to another desktop environment because an app I needed to run was buggy under gnome and gnome developers in their infinite wisdom decided to remove the setting needed to fix it. Mind you, the setting had existed in gnome shell for years. What gnome devs seemingly fail to realize is that gnome is only a means to an end (i.e. to run software). People /will/ switch to alternatives the moment that it fails to do it's job. The exact same thing applies to ubuntu.