14 ms·

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

by bzb4 6y ago

pmontra 6y ago
I'm a super user but the last time I tried to use Debian as a desktop OS the experience was so disappointing that I reformatted to Ubuntu. I gave a shot to KDE and reformatted again to Gnome after a couple of weeks. That was 2014. I removed Debian as a possibility, KDE maybe someday. On a server Debian is OK.
- bzb4 6y ago
  What didn’t you like about Debian on the desktop? Old software?
  - pmontra 6y ago
    I don't remember exactly, it was 6 years ago. I remember the general feeling of having to do too much work to get a usable desktop. Maybe the settings? Keep in mind that I don't need anything fancy. I liked Gnome 2 and I stayed with Gnome Fallback until last year when there were enough Gnome Shell extensions to bend it to what I like a desktop to be. Maybe Debian is on par now. Old software can be worked around with containers and third party apt repositories. I often do that on Ubuntu too.
    - dleslie 6y ago
      Debian has improved greatly in the last six years. Try it with the xfce or mate flavours.
  - billme 6y ago
    I personally use any distro based on the situation. As others have pointed out, common reasoning behind picking a distro include: hardware requirements, existing ecosystems, end user, package management, configurableness, security, long-term support, ease of learning, driver support, core dev team’s opinions, funding, etc.
- megavolcano 6y ago
  These days Debian Gnome and default Ubuntu are so similar these days the difference is negligible once you installed 1 or 2 plugins that mimic the Ubuntu functionality. Ubuntu's gnome is just plain gnome with a few in-house extensions made by Canonical - hardly worth it in my opinion while Debian is rock solid. Buster (the current stable) is nearly perfect IMO.
billme 6y ago
“Super users” in this case is relative, as in the super users of Ubuntu’s community are the users to most likely have an issue with this and willing to leave to another distro if needed. Beyond that, increasingly common to see Ubuntu used in enterprise and the dev tasked with dealing with the issue may not have the authority to decide to use Ubuntu or not.
Wowfunhappy 6y ago
I'd expect users who go into Debian expecting some power-user version of Ubuntu to be disappointed. To be happy on Debian, you need to adopt their philosophy that stability is better than having the latest-and-greatest. For those unfamiliar, Debian releases come out about once every two years, at which point all software in Debian's repositories is frozen at its current version. Software receives security updates between releases, but nothing else. I personally think this is wonderful, and I would absolutely use Debian if I was interested in switching to Linux (which I'm not, at the moment). Constant change is inherently frustrating, even when the changes themselves are a net positive (they often aren't). Debian's approach provides a level of reliability and consistency that is sorely lacking in most modern software. So, while I also recommend Debian, I do so only if you too agree with the above paragraph.
- bzb4 6y ago
  Consider that LTS editions of Ubuntu, which are very popular and Canonical themselves recommend, work exactly the same way.
- war1025 6y ago
  Debian has stable, testing, unstable, and experimental repositories. If you only enable stable, then you are signing up for very outdated software. If you add `testing`, you get quite a ways towards having an up to date system, while still not having to worry too much about odd bugs. Adding in `unstable` gets you about as close to up to date as you can get without compiling the source yourself. Experimental is good to keep around, but in my experience most things skip it and just hop straight to unstable. The beautiful thing about Debian compared to Ubuntu is that it actually is a rolling release system. Ubuntu users have to worry about what version they are on. With Debian, you set what track you want to follow and just remember to install updates as they become available. Because it's a rolling release, you're much more likely to catch small issues and be able to isolate what package is causing the problem, as opposed to doing a thousand package upgrades at once and then being snagged because one of them had an install issue.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
Enginerrrd 6y ago
I have to disagree. I've used debian for years. I stand by the assertion that it's a wonderful platform for a server, but marginal for a desktop.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Should? Maybe. Probably will at this rate? Almost certainly.

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

by bzb4 6y ago

Super users should be using Debian. Not being snarky.

I'm a super user but the last time I tried to use Debian as a desktop OS the experience was so disappointing that I reformatted to Ubuntu. I gave a shot to KDE and reformatted again to Gnome after a couple of weeks. That was 2014. I removed Debian as a possibility, KDE maybe someday. On a server Debian is OK.

bzb4 6y ago
What didn’t you like about Debian on the desktop? Old software?
- pmontra 6y ago
  I don't remember exactly, it was 6 years ago. I remember the general feeling of having to do too much work to get a usable desktop. Maybe the settings? Keep in mind that I don't need anything fancy. I liked Gnome 2 and I stayed with Gnome Fallback until last year when there were enough Gnome Shell extensions to bend it to what I like a desktop to be. Maybe Debian is on par now. Old software can be worked around with containers and third party apt repositories. I often do that on Ubuntu too.
  - dleslie 6y ago
    Debian has improved greatly in the last six years. Try it with the xfce or mate flavours.
- billme 6y ago
  I personally use any distro based on the situation. As others have pointed out, common reasoning behind picking a distro include: hardware requirements, existing ecosystems, end user, package management, configurableness, security, long-term support, ease of learning, driver support, core dev team’s opinions, funding, etc.
megavolcano 6y ago
These days Debian Gnome and default Ubuntu are so similar these days the difference is negligible once you installed 1 or 2 plugins that mimic the Ubuntu functionality. Ubuntu's gnome is just plain gnome with a few in-house extensions made by Canonical - hardly worth it in my opinion while Debian is rock solid. Buster (the current stable) is nearly perfect IMO.

billme 6y ago

“Super users” in this case is relative, as in the super users of Ubuntu’s community are the users to most likely have an issue with this and willing to leave to another distro if needed. Beyond that, increasingly common to see Ubuntu used in enterprise and the dev tasked with dealing with the issue may not have the authority to decide to use Ubuntu or not.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

I'd expect users who go into Debian expecting some power-user version of Ubuntu to be disappointed. To be happy on Debian, you need to adopt their philosophy that stability is better than having the latest-and-greatest. For those unfamiliar, Debian releases come out about once every two years, at which point all software in Debian's repositories is frozen at its current version. Software receives security updates between releases, but nothing else. I personally think this is wonderful, and I would absolutely use Debian if I was interested in switching to Linux (which I'm not, at the moment). Constant change is inherently frustrating, even when the changes themselves are a net positive (they often aren't). Debian's approach provides a level of reliability and consistency that is sorely lacking in most modern software. So, while I also recommend Debian, I do so only if you too agree with the above paragraph.

bzb4 6y ago
Consider that LTS editions of Ubuntu, which are very popular and Canonical themselves recommend, work exactly the same way.
war1025 6y ago
Debian has stable, testing, unstable, and experimental repositories. If you only enable stable, then you are signing up for very outdated software. If you add `testing`, you get quite a ways towards having an up to date system, while still not having to worry too much about odd bugs. Adding in `unstable` gets you about as close to up to date as you can get without compiling the source yourself. Experimental is good to keep around, but in my experience most things skip it and just hop straight to unstable. The beautiful thing about Debian compared to Ubuntu is that it actually is a rolling release system. Ubuntu users have to worry about what version they are on. With Debian, you set what track you want to follow and just remember to install updates as they become available. Because it's a rolling release, you're much more likely to catch small issues and be able to isolate what package is causing the problem, as opposed to doing a thousand package upgrades at once and then being snagged because one of them had an install issue.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago

Enginerrrd 6y ago

I have to disagree. I've used debian for years. I stand by the assertion that it's a wonderful platform for a server, but marginal for a desktop.

ashtonkem 6y ago

Should? Maybe. Probably will at this rate? Almost certainly.