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Accusations of "elitism" being what they may, the name is in fact a slice of humility: they advertise that their software "sucks less", not that it is "without

Accusations of "elitism" being what they may, the name is in fact a slice of humility: they advertise that their software "sucks less", not that it is "without suck".

jai_ 6y ago
This isn't an accusation. They explicitly mention this is as a design goal on their page. See the "Differences" section: https://dwm.suckless.org/ https://dwm.suckless.org/
- lloeki 6y ago
  I always found the elitist statement on that page strangely at odds with the rest of the philosophy (at least how I understand it). I mean, if everything is small and simple, doesn’t require you to learn a frameworkish configuration written in yet another language but can be configured with what amounts to a key/value file and can be installed in seconds with make + sudo make install, then it’s hardly elitist.
lloeki 6y ago
I guess the name comes from Mutt: > The Mutt E-Mail Client > "All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." -me, circa 1995 The above is in essence a absurdly humorous, self-derogatory show of humility, summarizing the sysiphean task of trying to make any software bug free and useful in any way.
MauranKilom 6y ago
That's not the way I understand the "-less" composition they use. "harmless" doesn't mean "poses less harm", it means "poses no harm". "colorless" doesn't mean "less color", it means "no color". And so on. So to me, "suckless" means "doesn't suck", no humility. Admittedly, it doesn't exactly follow the normal composition rules so the exact interpretation is more up in the air, but that won't change the fact that many people will read it the way I described above.
- ydlr 6y ago
  I think it means both. The ideal is to be suckless, but practically, the most one can hope for is to suck less.
- gpanders 6y ago
  Well in this case, "software that sucks less" is on the top of every page of their website, so the intent behind their name is pretty clear.
baxrob 6y ago
Anslem of suckless explains in a conference video that it was basically the domain name they ended up with that got traction though not everybody liked it to begin with. Which kindof sucks in itself but you know..

Accusations of "elitism" being what they may, the name is in fact a slice of humility: they advertise that their software "sucks less", not that it is "without suck".

jai_ 6y ago

This isn't an accusation. They explicitly mention this is as a design goal on their page. See the "Differences" section: https://dwm.suckless.org/ https://dwm.suckless.org/

lloeki 6y ago
I always found the elitist statement on that page strangely at odds with the rest of the philosophy (at least how I understand it). I mean, if everything is small and simple, doesn’t require you to learn a frameworkish configuration written in yet another language but can be configured with what amounts to a key/value file and can be installed in seconds with make + sudo make install, then it’s hardly elitist.

lloeki 6y ago

I guess the name comes from Mutt: > The Mutt E-Mail Client > "All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." -me, circa 1995 The above is in essence a absurdly humorous, self-derogatory show of humility, summarizing the sysiphean task of trying to make any software bug free and useful in any way.

MauranKilom 6y ago

That's not the way I understand the "-less" composition they use. "harmless" doesn't mean "poses less harm", it means "poses no harm". "colorless" doesn't mean "less color", it means "no color". And so on. So to me, "suckless" means "doesn't suck", no humility. Admittedly, it doesn't exactly follow the normal composition rules so the exact interpretation is more up in the air, but that won't change the fact that many people will read it the way I described above.

ydlr 6y ago
I think it means both. The ideal is to be suckless, but practically, the most one can hope for is to suck less.
gpanders 6y ago
Well in this case, "software that sucks less" is on the top of every page of their website, so the intent behind their name is pretty clear.

baxrob 6y ago

Anslem of suckless explains in a conference video that it was basically the domain name they ended up with that got traction though not everybody liked it to begin with. Which kindof sucks in itself but you know..