7 ms·

A new project: multi-track audio editing (2005)

89 points by pmarin 6y ago

signaru 6y ago
Wow. The title looks like a link to a toy project. But this is actually the origins of REAPER!!! My favorite DAW. Feature rich, original, not bloated, cross platform and reasonably affordable. Pretty inspiring to see its early stages and how it is very successful now. Despite the current version looking way cooler, some early UI elements still recognizable.
- panpanna 6y ago
  Yeah, took me a while to figure that out. Interesting to see that it took 15 years to get where he is today. I've never tried reaper, how does it compare to DAWs like abelton live, waveform pro (the old Mackie Traction) and bitwig (which is the go to commercial DAW for Linux users)
  - kebos 6y ago
    It's really excellent - I previously used Cubase and Ableton.
    - panpanna 6y ago
      Interesting. How are the included effects and instruments? Is there a single version or different tiers like abelton, where you get almost no instruments with the cheapest tiers?
      - someoneiam 6y ago
        Reaper has a plethora of built-in effects and you can script your own in JS or Python or EEL2. You'd have to use third-party synthesizers though. That said, the GUIs of said effects are basic, but I personally still find them useful. There is no difference between the evaluation, non-commercial and commercial tiers. I'd say, give it a try, the days when Reaper was a niche DAW are way in the past. Especially if you like the idea of being able to customize every corner of your DAW, Reaper is the no-brainer choice.
        spacechild1 6y ago
        Nitpick: the JSFX audio effects you're referring to are scripted in EEL2. Reaper itself can be scripted with Python, Lua and EEL2 (see http://reaper.fm/sdk/reascript/reascript.php http://reaper.fm/sdk/reascript/reascript.php). It also has a C plugin API.
      - dkh 6y ago
        Unfortunately you’ve just hit upon one of the biggest arguments used against Reaper — it has a pretty limited set of good effects and only a couple “instruments” like a very barebones synth that I would never use. But that’s not why Reaper users love Reaper. It’s in its performance, flexibility, customization, etc. In another league as far as these things go. But you get almost nothing for free as far as instruments. I’m fine with this and wished it weren’t a deterrent for folks like it often is. The best effects and instruments are not baked into any DAW, they’re the ones you have as VSTs that are portable to whatever DAW you want. Reaper is a fraction of the cost of Ableton. The only other “tier” is that for just $60 they’ll sell you Reaper with a personal use license only. No limitations or changes in the software itself.
    - wwweston 6y ago
      RE: Ableton -- does Reaper have anything like the clips-triggering interface that people interested in DAW-as-loop-instrument often use Ableton Live for?
      - te_chris 6y ago
        No nothing like that in my experience, it’s more traditional linear.
  - aasasd 6y ago
    Funny thing, I've seen comments saying Caustic is ‘Reaper for phones’. Can't say why, though.
  - signaru 6y ago
    I actually had to Google search just to confirm it is not a coincidence. Unfortunately, I can't say much about other DAWs as Reaper was pretty much what my budget allowed, and that was my first (and last) paid full featured DAW. There were not much free alternatives at the time. LMMS wasn't very stable, and hard to figure out (it might be better now). What I previously used was Synthfont (much cheaper freemium and more minimal and unlike common DAWs, but gets my job done) + Sekaiju opensource MIDI editor. My workflow was to use a scoring program (MuseScore), export the MIDI, tweak the MIDI in the DAW and use third party instruments/effects. But I remember that the Reaper downloads were less than 20MB. It didn't bundle with many VSTs or samples, but I preferred that as I felt other DAWs are bundling a lot of stuff that you probably won't need to justify higher prices. Especially since my main genre back then was orchestral music and most bundled sounds appear to be for dance music. Almost all sounds I used are third party VSTs and samples (I did use Reaper's reverb). I never noticed any lag on my 2008 Thinkpad or my 2013 MacBook Air. I'm not an active user now, since I spend more time coding (which may have killed my "right brain"...). Just to add. New versions often showcase cool useful features, hence made me say it is original (sorry this might sound subjective without trying other paid DAWs).
  - justinfrankel 6y ago
    "Interesting to see that it took 15 years to get where he is today." If I had started it in 2000 it would've taken 20 years to get to where it is (OK fine, would be) today...
  - httpsterio 6y ago
    Well, live and bitwig are both made partially by the same people so you could basically talk about them workflow wise as the same. They are a bit more oriented towards live performances than other DAWs which is evident by the clip view which is used to trigger and schedule clips (samples, midi or effects automation). Reaper is much more traditional as in it has a playlist where you can drag midi patterns and audio clips around in the main time line and throw stuff on the effect rack. It's very comparable to other DAWs like Cubase, Logic and Studio One for example. Main difference in those are basically some very specific functionality and how they're used in that DAW and what effects and plugins the software comes bundled with. Reaper is especially geared towards tracking audio into the DAW and handles multitrack recording better and more robustly than my own personal choice of DAW, FL Studio, does. Reaper also comes with a VST bundle called ReaPlugs which is actually free to download and use with any other DAW as well and one of the plugins provided is a JS interpreter where you can create your own scripted audio effects. Long story short, it's a real proper good DAW that ticks all the boxes and is just as good (if not better) than any other DAW as long as your needs align with what Reaper has to offer. At it's price, it's the best value and despite its price, its not cheaping out on features.
gkanai 6y ago
Justin Frankel of Winamp and Gnutella, before he went on to make Reaper.
aasasd 6y ago
I recently finally installed a DAW called Caustic 3 on my Android phone, which move I was putting off for quite a while, for lame reasons. I now consider that time to be my wasted years. The app is worth its toy price just in shock and awe at how well it works on a phone. It has limitations, but—pshaw!—it's still a ‘workstation’ quite able to punch up to the big boys, only on the phone—meaning I don't have to prop myself up at the table. The demo is fully functional apart from saving files or exporting the song—but it saves the project automatically between sessions. It's mostly for electronic music, with nine synths available apart from the sample-based one. However, with the sample-synth you can record some audio or load a soundfont, or throw samples into the beatbox. There's even an audio editor. But I'm guessing that phone memory might pose a problem for using long audio tracks. The app is made entirely by one guy. Afaik SDL is used for the GUI and input, which leads to not only it being available on iOS too, but also on Windows and Mac (and working in Wine)—where it's completely free. This vid shows the gist of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86OrU-E7RU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86OrU-E7RU (and other ones in the channel explain the rest).
- panpanna 6y ago
  IIRC, caustic was developed by a former game dev, and as such he worked hard to make it efficient and look good on all kinda of devices. For a while it was the most expensive app I had on my phone, and I bought it only to support the developer. There was an iOS port last time I checked, but maybe he decided to pull it?
  - aasasd 6y ago
    I guess my writing is a bit convoluted: the app is indeed on iOS, nothing is pulled.
- kristiandupont 6y ago
  It looks nice but from a quick skim through the video I didn't see anything special that sets it apart from other DAW's. Would you care to elaborate on why it's so special?
  - 6y ago
MrJagil 6y ago
As a professional podcast producer I’ve been experimenting with moving my workflow to ios and have been absolutely smitten with this thing: https://apps.apple.com/dk/app/multitrack-daw/id329322101?l=da https://apps.apple.com/dk/app/multitrack-daw/id329322101?l=d... It has that “slower-workflow” but “you cant fuck up by misclicking” vibe, that i miss from older UIs. Moving slower allows your mind to wander while working which can unlock some real creative thoughts. ... and it’s 13,9 MB.
Ruhrbaron 6y ago
Awesome "historic" documentary. I just recently got into playing around with electronic music production, and went for Ableton as my DAW of choice for now. Reaper was a serious contender though, and I understand it's the weapon of choice for quite some semi-professionals and even pros. Very interesting to see how it started like a toy project.
harel 6y ago
I appreciate Reaper very much although I'm religiously married to Cubase since it was a single floppy disk. This is quite something to dig up an origin story of a DAW.
- einr 6y ago
  Same. I love Reaper, its no-nonsense approach, how unbloated and customizable it is. Truly great software. I paid for a copy out of respect and encouragement, but I never use it. I've tried, but it's just not going to happen anytime soon. Cubase is kind of a house of cards with lots of weird technical debt from back when there were Atari ST's in every recording studio, but it works and the Cubase keyboard shortcuts and workflow are just so ingrained in me that switching is not worth it -- when you're writing and recording music the shortest path from idea to execution is always the best. I can't afford to let my tools get in the way of that. This is also why I still use Cubase 5 instead of a newer version -- because I know exactly how it works, there are no surprises, and it does everything I need.
  - DreamScatter 6y ago
    Reaper has extensive support for customizing keyboard shortcuts. I think there's even a Cubase skin theme.
    - harel 6y ago
      It's not just shortcuts. It's the whole package. I know one swimming pool, I know the sharks and the little fish. Another pool - different sharks, different fish... By the time i got to know them, I forgot what i was doing in the pool in the first place
  - harel 6y ago
    I just recently upgraded to the latest from cubase 5. It's actually great!
- panpanna 6y ago
  Haven't touched cubase since the DRM madness began. I know it has its fans, but it's not for me. I refuse to let one application completely take over my computer like that.
flavor8 6y ago
I digitized my studio a few months ago and settled on Reaper (running on kubuntu 20.04). I'm pretty happy with it, though Linux support is "beta" and support is forum based (there's a couple bugs that I'm just living with because nobody's engaged on them in forum posts). I probably could have gotten away with Ardour for my needs (recording, editing, mastering) - however, I can run Reaper at lower latencies (via Jack configuration) than Ardour. Mixbus seemed promising, but requires more latency still. Bitwig is cool, and I'd happily pay for it, but their midi implementation on linux is pretty weird, and I don't have the patience to fiddle around to make it work. I haven't used Ableton, so I can't comment on comparison; there is a plugin for Reaper which gives it a live performance mode apparently along the lines of Ableton's, but it's mac/windows only. Anyway, Reaper is extremely featureful, and is only around a 15MB download. Good midi implementation, customizable, good range of bundled effects (and ability to write your own in javascript). There's an audio engineer who posts tutorials on youtube under the name "Reaper Mania" - check out the recent ones to get a sampling of capability / workflow.
Nition 6y ago
If you want to see how it looks today: https://www.reaper.fm https://www.reaper.fm
yomritoyj 6y ago
I've been having fun playing with Soundtrap. It runs in the browser, allowing you to access your projects on any device. I'm not sure if it can meet the needs of professionals, but for someone just starting out with music it has been great. https://www.soundtrap.com/ https://www.soundtrap.com/
- panpanna 6y ago
  Is there a connection to the article?
tokamak-teapot 6y ago
I bought Reaper a few months ago and use it on an old MacBook where it performs quickly and flawlessly. Very happy to see the journey it has made!
vikingcaffiene 6y ago
I just switched from logic to reaper a few months ago. It's an incredible piece of software that does everything and more that I need from a DAW while also being able to load all my plugins etc. It's lighting fast and completely customizable too. Oh! And the video tutorials with Kenny Gioia are incredible. The only criticisms I'd level at it are that it's initial configuration is not that user friendly. You also lose a lot of software synths and stuff that you'll need to buy if you are migrating from logic (I already used Native Instruments stuff so it wasnt a big deal for me). For $60 it's hard to beat. Way better than pro tools imo.

89 points by pmarin 6y ago

Wow. The title looks like a link to a toy project. But this is actually the origins of REAPER!!! My favorite DAW. Feature rich, original, not bloated, cross platform and reasonably affordable. Pretty inspiring to see its early stages and how it is very successful now. Despite the current version looking way cooler, some early UI elements still recognizable.

panpanna 6y ago
Yeah, took me a while to figure that out. Interesting to see that it took 15 years to get where he is today. I've never tried reaper, how does it compare to DAWs like abelton live, waveform pro (the old Mackie Traction) and bitwig (which is the go to commercial DAW for Linux users)
- kebos 6y ago
  It's really excellent - I previously used Cubase and Ableton.
  - panpanna 6y ago
    Interesting. How are the included effects and instruments? Is there a single version or different tiers like abelton, where you get almost no instruments with the cheapest tiers?
    - someoneiam 6y ago
      Reaper has a plethora of built-in effects and you can script your own in JS or Python or EEL2. You'd have to use third-party synthesizers though. That said, the GUIs of said effects are basic, but I personally still find them useful. There is no difference between the evaluation, non-commercial and commercial tiers. I'd say, give it a try, the days when Reaper was a niche DAW are way in the past. Especially if you like the idea of being able to customize every corner of your DAW, Reaper is the no-brainer choice.
      - spacechild1 6y ago
        Nitpick: the JSFX audio effects you're referring to are scripted in EEL2. Reaper itself can be scripted with Python, Lua and EEL2 (see http://reaper.fm/sdk/reascript/reascript.php http://reaper.fm/sdk/reascript/reascript.php). It also has a C plugin API.
    - dkh 6y ago
      Unfortunately you’ve just hit upon one of the biggest arguments used against Reaper — it has a pretty limited set of good effects and only a couple “instruments” like a very barebones synth that I would never use. But that’s not why Reaper users love Reaper. It’s in its performance, flexibility, customization, etc. In another league as far as these things go. But you get almost nothing for free as far as instruments. I’m fine with this and wished it weren’t a deterrent for folks like it often is. The best effects and instruments are not baked into any DAW, they’re the ones you have as VSTs that are portable to whatever DAW you want. Reaper is a fraction of the cost of Ableton. The only other “tier” is that for just $60 they’ll sell you Reaper with a personal use license only. No limitations or changes in the software itself.
  - wwweston 6y ago
    RE: Ableton -- does Reaper have anything like the clips-triggering interface that people interested in DAW-as-loop-instrument often use Ableton Live for?
    - te_chris 6y ago
      No nothing like that in my experience, it’s more traditional linear.
- aasasd 6y ago
  Funny thing, I've seen comments saying Caustic is ‘Reaper for phones’. Can't say why, though.
- signaru 6y ago
  I actually had to Google search just to confirm it is not a coincidence. Unfortunately, I can't say much about other DAWs as Reaper was pretty much what my budget allowed, and that was my first (and last) paid full featured DAW. There were not much free alternatives at the time. LMMS wasn't very stable, and hard to figure out (it might be better now). What I previously used was Synthfont (much cheaper freemium and more minimal and unlike common DAWs, but gets my job done) + Sekaiju opensource MIDI editor. My workflow was to use a scoring program (MuseScore), export the MIDI, tweak the MIDI in the DAW and use third party instruments/effects. But I remember that the Reaper downloads were less than 20MB. It didn't bundle with many VSTs or samples, but I preferred that as I felt other DAWs are bundling a lot of stuff that you probably won't need to justify higher prices. Especially since my main genre back then was orchestral music and most bundled sounds appear to be for dance music. Almost all sounds I used are third party VSTs and samples (I did use Reaper's reverb). I never noticed any lag on my 2008 Thinkpad or my 2013 MacBook Air. I'm not an active user now, since I spend more time coding (which may have killed my "right brain"...). Just to add. New versions often showcase cool useful features, hence made me say it is original (sorry this might sound subjective without trying other paid DAWs).
- justinfrankel 6y ago
  "Interesting to see that it took 15 years to get where he is today." If I had started it in 2000 it would've taken 20 years to get to where it is (OK fine, would be) today...
- httpsterio 6y ago
  Well, live and bitwig are both made partially by the same people so you could basically talk about them workflow wise as the same. They are a bit more oriented towards live performances than other DAWs which is evident by the clip view which is used to trigger and schedule clips (samples, midi or effects automation). Reaper is much more traditional as in it has a playlist where you can drag midi patterns and audio clips around in the main time line and throw stuff on the effect rack. It's very comparable to other DAWs like Cubase, Logic and Studio One for example. Main difference in those are basically some very specific functionality and how they're used in that DAW and what effects and plugins the software comes bundled with. Reaper is especially geared towards tracking audio into the DAW and handles multitrack recording better and more robustly than my own personal choice of DAW, FL Studio, does. Reaper also comes with a VST bundle called ReaPlugs which is actually free to download and use with any other DAW as well and one of the plugins provided is a JS interpreter where you can create your own scripted audio effects. Long story short, it's a real proper good DAW that ticks all the boxes and is just as good (if not better) than any other DAW as long as your needs align with what Reaper has to offer. At it's price, it's the best value and despite its price, its not cheaping out on features.

gkanai 6y ago

Justin Frankel of Winamp and Gnutella, before he went on to make Reaper.

aasasd 6y ago

I recently finally installed a DAW called Caustic 3 on my Android phone, which move I was putting off for quite a while, for lame reasons. I now consider that time to be my wasted years. The app is worth its toy price just in shock and awe at how well it works on a phone. It has limitations, but—pshaw!—it's still a ‘workstation’ quite able to punch up to the big boys, only on the phone—meaning I don't have to prop myself up at the table. The demo is fully functional apart from saving files or exporting the song—but it saves the project automatically between sessions. It's mostly for electronic music, with nine synths available apart from the sample-based one. However, with the sample-synth you can record some audio or load a soundfont, or throw samples into the beatbox. There's even an audio editor. But I'm guessing that phone memory might pose a problem for using long audio tracks. The app is made entirely by one guy. Afaik SDL is used for the GUI and input, which leads to not only it being available on iOS too, but also on Windows and Mac (and working in Wine)—where it's completely free. This vid shows the gist of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86OrU-E7RU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86OrU-E7RU (and other ones in the channel explain the rest).

panpanna 6y ago
IIRC, caustic was developed by a former game dev, and as such he worked hard to make it efficient and look good on all kinda of devices. For a while it was the most expensive app I had on my phone, and I bought it only to support the developer. There was an iOS port last time I checked, but maybe he decided to pull it?
- aasasd 6y ago
  I guess my writing is a bit convoluted: the app is indeed on iOS, nothing is pulled.
kristiandupont 6y ago
It looks nice but from a quick skim through the video I didn't see anything special that sets it apart from other DAW's. Would you care to elaborate on why it's so special?
- 6y ago

MrJagil 6y ago

As a professional podcast producer I’ve been experimenting with moving my workflow to ios and have been absolutely smitten with this thing: https://apps.apple.com/dk/app/multitrack-daw/id329322101?l=da https://apps.apple.com/dk/app/multitrack-daw/id329322101?l=d... It has that “slower-workflow” but “you cant fuck up by misclicking” vibe, that i miss from older UIs. Moving slower allows your mind to wander while working which can unlock some real creative thoughts. ... and it’s 13,9 MB.

Ruhrbaron 6y ago

Awesome "historic" documentary. I just recently got into playing around with electronic music production, and went for Ableton as my DAW of choice for now. Reaper was a serious contender though, and I understand it's the weapon of choice for quite some semi-professionals and even pros. Very interesting to see how it started like a toy project.

harel 6y ago

I appreciate Reaper very much although I'm religiously married to Cubase since it was a single floppy disk. This is quite something to dig up an origin story of a DAW.

einr 6y ago
Same. I love Reaper, its no-nonsense approach, how unbloated and customizable it is. Truly great software. I paid for a copy out of respect and encouragement, but I never use it. I've tried, but it's just not going to happen anytime soon. Cubase is kind of a house of cards with lots of weird technical debt from back when there were Atari ST's in every recording studio, but it works and the Cubase keyboard shortcuts and workflow are just so ingrained in me that switching is not worth it -- when you're writing and recording music the shortest path from idea to execution is always the best. I can't afford to let my tools get in the way of that. This is also why I still use Cubase 5 instead of a newer version -- because I know exactly how it works, there are no surprises, and it does everything I need.
- DreamScatter 6y ago
  Reaper has extensive support for customizing keyboard shortcuts. I think there's even a Cubase skin theme.
  - harel 6y ago
    It's not just shortcuts. It's the whole package. I know one swimming pool, I know the sharks and the little fish. Another pool - different sharks, different fish... By the time i got to know them, I forgot what i was doing in the pool in the first place
- harel 6y ago
  I just recently upgraded to the latest from cubase 5. It's actually great!
panpanna 6y ago
Haven't touched cubase since the DRM madness began. I know it has its fans, but it's not for me. I refuse to let one application completely take over my computer like that.

flavor8 6y ago

I digitized my studio a few months ago and settled on Reaper (running on kubuntu 20.04). I'm pretty happy with it, though Linux support is "beta" and support is forum based (there's a couple bugs that I'm just living with because nobody's engaged on them in forum posts). I probably could have gotten away with Ardour for my needs (recording, editing, mastering) - however, I can run Reaper at lower latencies (via Jack configuration) than Ardour. Mixbus seemed promising, but requires more latency still. Bitwig is cool, and I'd happily pay for it, but their midi implementation on linux is pretty weird, and I don't have the patience to fiddle around to make it work. I haven't used Ableton, so I can't comment on comparison; there is a plugin for Reaper which gives it a live performance mode apparently along the lines of Ableton's, but it's mac/windows only. Anyway, Reaper is extremely featureful, and is only around a 15MB download. Good midi implementation, customizable, good range of bundled effects (and ability to write your own in javascript). There's an audio engineer who posts tutorials on youtube under the name "Reaper Mania" - check out the recent ones to get a sampling of capability / workflow.

Nition 6y ago

If you want to see how it looks today: https://www.reaper.fm https://www.reaper.fm

yomritoyj 6y ago

I've been having fun playing with Soundtrap. It runs in the browser, allowing you to access your projects on any device. I'm not sure if it can meet the needs of professionals, but for someone just starting out with music it has been great. https://www.soundtrap.com/ https://www.soundtrap.com/

panpanna 6y ago
Is there a connection to the article?

tokamak-teapot 6y ago

I bought Reaper a few months ago and use it on an old MacBook where it performs quickly and flawlessly. Very happy to see the journey it has made!

vikingcaffiene 6y ago

I just switched from logic to reaper a few months ago. It's an incredible piece of software that does everything and more that I need from a DAW while also being able to load all my plugins etc. It's lighting fast and completely customizable too. Oh! And the video tutorials with Kenny Gioia are incredible. The only criticisms I'd level at it are that it's initial configuration is not that user friendly. You also lose a lot of software synths and stuff that you'll need to buy if you are migrating from logic (I already used Native Instruments stuff so it wasnt a big deal for me). For $60 it's hard to beat. Way better than pro tools imo.