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Ask HN: I'm considering leaving a startup to look for big-company jobs (really).
I know this decision may not be popular around here, but I think the quality of advice that I'll get is good, so I'm going to ask for it. I'm a talented programmer who is now considering leaving a startup and moving back into the big-company fold. My savings are near zero-- that rules out another startup-- and a part of me thinks that a big-company job for a while might not be the worst thing in the world.
I've decided to leave a startup in which I was a founder, although the partnership was always a bit unequal (I'm the youngest and don't have any contacts to potential customers or VCs) and our CEO often takes the attitude of it being a one-man show (i.e. he tends to get "set" in decisions without appeal, he makes shitty comments if we take a long lunch, and we deal with 2-4 status checks per day). I've been treated enough like an employee that my motivation has crashed and I essentially am "just an employee" at this point. I don't have a sense of authorship over my work. At which point, why am I continuing to work for low pay? If the major benefit of being at a startup is autonomy, and I don't have that, then what the fuck am I doing?
It's been almost 3 years, and we haven't failed, but we haven't launched or secured funding yet and "just around the corner" syndrome has been ongoing ever since I started. I don't think our CEO would lie, but I can't trust his perception that things are "just about to heat up" because he's been wrong on that matter for so long.
I don't think, for the record, that our lack of success (to this point) is the CEO's fault, and it's definitely not mine: I'm just a developer. I'd prefer to leave details out, but we expended a lot of energy chasing features for customers who flaked on us, or that would/might appeal to VCs, and hence we are at Year 3 and have a lot of cool code but no minimum viable product.
I feel a bit disloyal and selfish for considering quitting, but I also feel like it's what I need to do. It's my career and I need to be selfish.
I also know that established, large companies aren't held in high regard here and I share that prejudice. On the other hand, I think large-company jobs, even if they don't lead to nine-figure exits, can turn out well. My view of large company jobs is this: sure, the default is to get bad projects and not learn much, in which case one leaves after 8-24 months for greener pastures; but they're great if someone powerful taps you as protege, favors you in project allocation, and makes you a "made man" (or "made woman") in the company. In other words, "startup" and "big company" are just two games with good and bad possible outcomes, with more variance in the startup scenario and, in both, with the "good" outcome being somewhat rare (1/5) and the "bad" being the norm. The career game is just about spinning the wheel, repeatedly, until you actually win. And I think it's time for another spin.
The question: what does leaving a startup-- one that a future employer won't have heard of-- do for (or to) one's career? Is it right for me to expect "career credit" for the 3 years I spent? Or am I fucked in that regard? Strategically, what should I be doing to maximize my chances of getting a decent big-company job? Also, what is the programmer job market like? When I last looked around (2008) it was horrendous. Has it improved?
- jjm 16y agoLook to joining another startup. Three years is too long. Look into evaluating your current predicament every 6 months. In a corp job, two years is the maximum I'd expect in any position, and you stayed three with a startup... Seriously look to join another startup.
- throwaway4921 16y agoI could definitely do this if the startup job could pay me full salary. Alas, I'm in New York and would not leave the city lightly: family and friends. It'd have to be a dream job for me to consider moving, and with the rocky career I've had I don't even think dream jobs are available (or maybe it's just that I feel like a failure because I'm near 30 and haven't broken out yet). My appraisal of startup vs. big-company life is that startups have more variation in individual monetary payoff, while big companies have more variance in quality of work. At a startup, you get a mix of interesting work and shitty grunt work that has to be done, and there's nothing personal about it because everyone is getting about the same quality of work, and because doing the grunt work is well worth it if the startup pays off. In a big company, you can end up in an AI/machine learning research group with high autonomy... or you can end up maintaining some shitty legacy payroll system. But yes, I would consider a job at another startup. Or at a big company. Or at my current company if I knew the situation would improve. I don't want to be a "job hopper" and would love to find a job where it's still worth it to show up for work after 5 years.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jerf 16y ago"I could definitely do this if the startup job could pay me full salary." Some can. "Startup" can still encompass something that's been running a year, is profitable, and has ~10 employees. You'll still get most if not all the autonomy while drawing a salary. You may have to give up stock options to get it, but, well, sometimes you come out the winner on those transactions.... You're trading some job security away but as others say that only matters if the job disappears and you can't quickly find another. I won't tell you not to go big company but I would suggest you may have a false dichotomy here. The choice isn't between 3 guys going bankrupt and a bureaucracy-bound multi-national with thousands of employees. There's a lot of middle ground.