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If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to

If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea. Sure the daunting setup process would fall into the "a hobby" category but once it runs it tends to just keep running as long as you update it from time to time. Using it now for ~5 Years and in that time I had two times problems one was that the new kernel version didn't work with my laptop and another which was fully my fault by doing some "special" boot setup with some custom self written package and not maintaining it. Oh and the only reasons they where problems was because I never setup recovery boot or boot prev. kernel version. Besides that I remember having more work with maintaining Ubuntu when I used it ~8 years ago. Also disclaimer I had some more work like setting up edurom with network manager without using any proper UI for it (nmtui...). It's doable but not properly documented. But non of this is a problem if you "just" use Gnome or KDE or at last part of the tooling from Gnome/KDE. EDIT: But Fedora is probably what you are looking for. Widely used, well maintained and normally up to date.

Sevaris 6y ago
Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.
- non-entity 6y ago
  Does Manjaro do pretty well with wireless and graphics drivers. I honestly want something I can live boot, install and use immediately. I dont mind customizing later, but I've had my fun fighting with getting linux set up.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    I've tried it on nVidia and AMD systems, and I'd been using it to troubleshoot customer laptops as a technician. Never had issues with drivers.
- pkulak 6y ago
  The cost of Arch over anything else is 100% in the installation. After that, it IS Manjaro except you are using the real thing, not a derivative. I've had to trouble shoot Arch far less than any other distro I've ever used.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    My main problem with Arch is that there's rarely a point where I feel like I've finished installing. There's always something missing or something not configured right. Shit, dialog still isn't a default package in 2020, which you need to use wifi-menu during the install process. So if you happen to forget to install that (and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation), you're going to have to reboot into the live media, chroot into your install, install dialog, then reboot again. https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/netctl/ https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/netctl/ Why in the fuck is dialog an optional dependency? Which sort of ties into my next problem which is that Arch simply isn't opinionated enough. Which is fine for people who want that kind of experience, but if you used Ubuntu before and you want a similar "install and go" experience, Arch really isn't the right answer. It is if your goal is to tinker with Arch, but that isn't what everybody wants.
    - nsajko 6y ago
      > Why in the fuck is dialog an optional dependency? Not all people who use netctl want wifi-menu. > it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation It sure is. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl And there on the top of the netctl page it lists in a table dialog as a dependency of wifi-menu. > Which sort of ties into my next problem which is that Arch simply isn't opinionated enough. Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions...
      - Sevaris 6y ago
        Please tell me you're fucking joking. You can't be serious. This ties into one of my other comments about how god awful the documentation is for beginners (or even intermediates) after scrapping the beginner's guide. > Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions... Yes. And that's fucking fine. Arch Linux isn't opinionated. Which is great, but not what I (or others) might be looking for in a distro.
- nsajko 6y ago
  From my perspective Manjaro seems like Arch+added nonsense. I honestly don't see what are you trying to say regarding Manjaro with "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" or "Arch just requires way too much fiddling". On the other hand I could understand if you just wanted something that requires less knowledge to set up the first time, but then why not go with Debian or something? To clarify, I doubt that Manjaro is more debuggable than Arch, considering it's just Arch+added complications.
  - Sevaris 6y ago
    Manjaro is install and go. Arch Linux is ... well, if you haven't done it before, you're going to waste at least an hour going through the awful documentation trying to piece together what the installation flow is supposed to be. The beginner's guide was scrapped and the replacement is awful. So if you're new, it's going to be painful. And if you aren't new, it's still painful if you just want to install your OS and get working on things that actually have anything to do with things that interest you. You like Arch Linux, fine. But don't pretend everybody wants to install and configure everything manually, then mess around with whatever seems to be not working because the moons aren't aligned just right that day. I'm tired of Arch Linux. I'm tired of all the tinkering. I'm tired of the additional cognitive load of all the things I have to make sure is configured right. I already waste hours of my day just getting tooling to work for whatever god awful language I have to work with that day. I just want things to work. Manjaro just works.
    - nsajko 6y ago
      I agree that installation requires more learning than other distros, but once you get past that I don't understand the problem. I think Arch "just works", too, and I don't see how Manjaro could be better in that regard considering it is closely related to Arch. BTW, you do know you don't ever need to reinstall Arch (on a single machine)? EDIT: > I'm tired of all the tinkering. I'm tired of the additional cognitive load of all the things I have to make sure is configured right. I already waste hours of my day just getting tooling to work for whatever god awful language I have to work with that day. I just want things to work. Manjaro just works. I definitely understand that, but I feel that if I went to Manjaro or Debian or whatever the added complexity would make debugging much more annoying.
- coronadisaster 6y ago
  I've had a lot of problems with Manjaro (some hard to fix) and not as much with Arch... maybe only because my main computer is using Manjaro though
voqv 6y ago
Before switching to Arch, check if packages you rely on for your job are not in the AUR. It became "a hobby" really quick for me to rebuild my entire dev stack because of the bleeding edge approach and "let's update every week and fix source code while we're at it".
- hak8or 6y ago
  Do you have any examples of such packages that were missing? I've been using arch for maybe five years at this point and am an embedded developer. I had maybe oneor two times that I had to install something that was not in the aur.
  - voqv 6y ago
    For me, that was ROS (in Robotics). Some people I worked with had issues with Anaconda. I miss Arch though, I learned a lot about Linux through it, but every hour spent fixing something is an hour less spent on actual work.
    - andai 6y ago
      What do you use now?
      - voqv 6y ago
        LTS Ubuntu with a window manager I learned when using Arch (bspwm)
hashkb 6y ago
> Sure the daunting setup process FWIW I switched from Ubuntu to Arch recently and to me the setup was a breeze. Just follow the instructions. I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
bananamerica 6y ago
> I just want an OS, not a hobby > If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea Something doesn’t add up there...

Sevaris 6y ago

Ugh, no. Manjaro is the no-nonsense "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" version of Arch Linux. I stopped using Arch when I found Manjaro and I'm so glad I did. Arch just requires way too much fiddling for it to ever feel "complete" and or finished.

non-entity 6y ago
Does Manjaro do pretty well with wireless and graphics drivers. I honestly want something I can live boot, install and use immediately. I dont mind customizing later, but I've had my fun fighting with getting linux set up.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  I've tried it on nVidia and AMD systems, and I'd been using it to troubleshoot customer laptops as a technician. Never had issues with drivers.
pkulak 6y ago
The cost of Arch over anything else is 100% in the installation. After that, it IS Manjaro except you are using the real thing, not a derivative. I've had to trouble shoot Arch far less than any other distro I've ever used.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  My main problem with Arch is that there's rarely a point where I feel like I've finished installing. There's always something missing or something not configured right. Shit, dialog still isn't a default package in 2020, which you need to use wifi-menu during the install process. So if you happen to forget to install that (and it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation), you're going to have to reboot into the live media, chroot into your install, install dialog, then reboot again. https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/netctl/ https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/any/netctl/ Why in the fuck is dialog an optional dependency? Which sort of ties into my next problem which is that Arch simply isn't opinionated enough. Which is fine for people who want that kind of experience, but if you used Ubuntu before and you want a similar "install and go" experience, Arch really isn't the right answer. It is if your goal is to tinker with Arch, but that isn't what everybody wants.
  - nsajko 6y ago
    > Why in the fuck is dialog an optional dependency? Not all people who use netctl want wifi-menu. > it isn't mentioned anywhere in the documentation It sure is. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Network_configuration -> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netctl And there on the top of the netctl page it lists in a table dialog as a dependency of wifi-menu. > Which sort of ties into my next problem which is that Arch simply isn't opinionated enough. Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions...
    - Sevaris 6y ago
      Please tell me you're fucking joking. You can't be serious. This ties into one of my other comments about how god awful the documentation is for beginners (or even intermediates) after scrapping the beginner's guide. > Maybe, but not all people have the same opinions... Yes. And that's fucking fine. Arch Linux isn't opinionated. Which is great, but not what I (or others) might be looking for in a distro.
nsajko 6y ago
From my perspective Manjaro seems like Arch+added nonsense. I honestly don't see what are you trying to say regarding Manjaro with "I really don't want to waste time troubleshooting my own shit" or "Arch just requires way too much fiddling". On the other hand I could understand if you just wanted something that requires less knowledge to set up the first time, but then why not go with Debian or something? To clarify, I doubt that Manjaro is more debuggable than Arch, considering it's just Arch+added complications.
- Sevaris 6y ago
  Manjaro is install and go. Arch Linux is ... well, if you haven't done it before, you're going to waste at least an hour going through the awful documentation trying to piece together what the installation flow is supposed to be. The beginner's guide was scrapped and the replacement is awful. So if you're new, it's going to be painful. And if you aren't new, it's still painful if you just want to install your OS and get working on things that actually have anything to do with things that interest you. You like Arch Linux, fine. But don't pretend everybody wants to install and configure everything manually, then mess around with whatever seems to be not working because the moons aren't aligned just right that day. I'm tired of Arch Linux. I'm tired of all the tinkering. I'm tired of the additional cognitive load of all the things I have to make sure is configured right. I already waste hours of my day just getting tooling to work for whatever god awful language I have to work with that day. I just want things to work. Manjaro just works.
  - nsajko 6y ago
    I agree that installation requires more learning than other distros, but once you get past that I don't understand the problem. I think Arch "just works", too, and I don't see how Manjaro could be better in that regard considering it is closely related to Arch. BTW, you do know you don't ever need to reinstall Arch (on a single machine)? EDIT: > I'm tired of all the tinkering. I'm tired of the additional cognitive load of all the things I have to make sure is configured right. I already waste hours of my day just getting tooling to work for whatever god awful language I have to work with that day. I just want things to work. Manjaro just works. I definitely understand that, but I feel that if I went to Manjaro or Debian or whatever the added complexity would make debugging much more annoying.
coronadisaster 6y ago
I've had a lot of problems with Manjaro (some hard to fix) and not as much with Arch... maybe only because my main computer is using Manjaro though

voqv 6y ago

Before switching to Arch, check if packages you rely on for your job are not in the AUR. It became "a hobby" really quick for me to rebuild my entire dev stack because of the bleeding edge approach and "let's update every week and fix source code while we're at it".

hak8or 6y ago
Do you have any examples of such packages that were missing? I've been using arch for maybe five years at this point and am an embedded developer. I had maybe oneor two times that I had to install something that was not in the aur.
- voqv 6y ago
  For me, that was ROS (in Robotics). Some people I worked with had issues with Anaconda. I miss Arch though, I learned a lot about Linux through it, but every hour spent fixing something is an hour less spent on actual work.
  - andai 6y ago
    What do you use now?
    - voqv 6y ago
      LTS Ubuntu with a window manager I learned when using Arch (bspwm)

hashkb 6y ago

> Sure the daunting setup process FWIW I switched from Ubuntu to Arch recently and to me the setup was a breeze. Just follow the instructions. I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner.

bananamerica 6y ago

> I just want an OS, not a hobby > If you have linux experience Arch Linux can be a good idea Something doesn’t add up there...