4 ms·

Please elaborate on these cases in which masks have supposedly a net negative effect on the wearer.

by jdc 6y ago

DanBC 6y ago
It's in the above tweet. Your mask is by definition contaminated (that's why you wear it, to catch the contamination), and many people fiddle with their masks. They then rub their eyes, or they touch their mouth.
- jdc 6y ago
  Then let's solve that problem!
  - DanBC 6y ago
    We need better evidence that masks provide any benefit and don't cause harm before we try to fix problems.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      We really don't at this point: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... > The use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting. Our unadjusted analyses might, at first impression, suggest use of face masks in the community setting to be less effective than in the health-care setting, but after accounting for differential N95 respirator use between health-care and non-health-care settings, we did not detect any striking differences in effectiveness of face mask use between settings. The credibility of effect-modification across settings was, therefore, low. Wearing face masks was also acceptable and feasible. Policy makers at all levels should, therefore, strive to address equity implications for groups with currently limited access to face masks and eye protection. The onus is on the "they're dangerous!" folks now.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        You know you've linked me to a pop-sci piece about a study that I've already linked several times in this thread? > However, the authors note that the findings on face masks and eye protection are based on limited evidence. So limited that this finding was "low confidence". And that's for optimal use of N95 masks, not for fluid resistant surgical masks or cloth masks. Here's what the actual study said: > From a policy and public health perspective, current policies of at least 1 m physical distancing seem to be strongly associated with a large protective effect, and distances of 2 m could be more effective. These data could also facilitate harmonisation of the definition of exposed (eg, within 2 m), which has implications for contact tracing. The quantitative estimates provided here should inform disease-modelling studies, which are important for planning pandemic response efforts. Policy makers around the world should strive to promptly and adequately address equity implications for groups with currently limited access to face masks and eye protection. For health-care workers and administrators, our findings suggest that N95 respirators might be more strongly associated with protection from viral transmission than surgical masks. Both N95 and surgical masks have a stronger association with protection compared with single-layer masks. Eye protection might also add substantial protection. For the general public, evidence shows that physical distancing of more than 1 m is highly effective and that face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings, with either disposable surgical masks or reusable 12–16-layer cotton ones, although much of this evidence was on mask use within households and among contacts of cases. Eye protection is typically under considered and can be effective in community settings. However, no intervention, even when properly used, was associated with complete protection from infection. Other basic measures (eg, hand hygiene) are still needed in addition to physical distancing and use of face masks and eye protection.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        The article links to The Lancet. I've edited and cite directly from the paper, and no, it's not "for optimal use of N95 masks". See my quoted segment. Even the bit you're quoting says "face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings".
        6y ago
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  People touch their faces all the time, whether they're wearing masks or not. This theoretical harm exists equally in both cases; in fact, touching the mask may remind you you're not supposed to be touching your face, and trigger a hand washing or hand sanitizer use.

Please elaborate on these cases in which masks have supposedly a net negative effect on the wearer.

by jdc 6y ago

Please elaborate on these cases in which masks have supposedly a net negative effect on the wearer.

It's in the above tweet. Your mask is by definition contaminated (that's why you wear it, to catch the contamination), and many people fiddle with their masks. They then rub their eyes, or they touch their mouth.

jdc 6y ago
Then let's solve that problem!
- DanBC 6y ago
  We need better evidence that masks provide any benefit and don't cause harm before we try to fix problems.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    We really don't at this point: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... > The use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting. Our unadjusted analyses might, at first impression, suggest use of face masks in the community setting to be less effective than in the health-care setting, but after accounting for differential N95 respirator use between health-care and non-health-care settings, we did not detect any striking differences in effectiveness of face mask use between settings. The credibility of effect-modification across settings was, therefore, low. Wearing face masks was also acceptable and feasible. Policy makers at all levels should, therefore, strive to address equity implications for groups with currently limited access to face masks and eye protection. The onus is on the "they're dangerous!" folks now.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      You know you've linked me to a pop-sci piece about a study that I've already linked several times in this thread? > However, the authors note that the findings on face masks and eye protection are based on limited evidence. So limited that this finding was "low confidence". And that's for optimal use of N95 masks, not for fluid resistant surgical masks or cloth masks. Here's what the actual study said: > From a policy and public health perspective, current policies of at least 1 m physical distancing seem to be strongly associated with a large protective effect, and distances of 2 m could be more effective. These data could also facilitate harmonisation of the definition of exposed (eg, within 2 m), which has implications for contact tracing. The quantitative estimates provided here should inform disease-modelling studies, which are important for planning pandemic response efforts. Policy makers around the world should strive to promptly and adequately address equity implications for groups with currently limited access to face masks and eye protection. For health-care workers and administrators, our findings suggest that N95 respirators might be more strongly associated with protection from viral transmission than surgical masks. Both N95 and surgical masks have a stronger association with protection compared with single-layer masks. Eye protection might also add substantial protection. For the general public, evidence shows that physical distancing of more than 1 m is highly effective and that face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings, with either disposable surgical masks or reusable 12–16-layer cotton ones, although much of this evidence was on mask use within households and among contacts of cases. Eye protection is typically under considered and can be effective in community settings. However, no intervention, even when properly used, was associated with complete protection from infection. Other basic measures (eg, hand hygiene) are still needed in addition to physical distancing and use of face masks and eye protection.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        The article links to The Lancet. I've edited and cite directly from the paper, and no, it's not "for optimal use of N95 masks". See my quoted segment. Even the bit you're quoting says "face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings".
        6y ago
ceejayoz 6y ago
People touch their faces all the time, whether they're wearing masks or not. This theoretical harm exists equally in both cases; in fact, touching the mask may remind you you're not supposed to be touching your face, and trigger a hand washing or hand sanitizer use.