5 ms·

woops there goes the nuance again :D

by rrmm 6y ago

throwaway894345 6y ago
I don't get it. Do you believe that by oversimplifying the conversation you're going to actually solve problems? Do you think it's helpful? Or is the problem less worthy than venting your frustrations (and in the latter case, are the frustrations legitimate or simply a product of the aforementioned media misinformation)?
- rrmm 6y ago
  This conversation isn't going to solve the problem (but that is a cop-out). I think the metaphor though hyperbolic was a bit germane: I too have a lot of problems with media coverage in general. But the reason why it's covered a lot more is because it's often super egregious. So it's oversimplifying to not consider the impact to the community (especially given the long historical context of racial oppression). My frustrations are legitimate, as I'm sure are yours. Calling it 'media misinformation' is begging the question.
  - throwaway894345 6y ago
    > But the reason why it's covered a lot more is because it's often super egregious. Daniel Shaver had no criminal history, he was unarmed in his own hotel room on his hands and knees begging for his life when a police officer shot him five times. Tim Timpa was pinned to the ground with at least one officer kneeling on his back while he struggled to breath, begging police officers to get off of him, saying they were going to kill him. He begged more than 30 times over the course of 14 minutes. The police officers joked about killing him even after he was unconscious and possibly even after he had died. Justine Damond was a 40 year old Australian-American woman who called the police to report a possible sexual assault in the alley near her home. She was unarmed and barefoot as she approached the police after they swept the alley in their squad car when they shot her in the chest. I don't see how these killings are less egregious than those that the media do report on. Moreover, there are also patently fraudulent media reports of racism, such as the Covington Catholic affair that are designed to get the nation in a race frenzy even if it means sending an angry mob after innocent children. I don't think "concern for the community" is motivating the media. Minority communities' anxiety is the result of--not the cause for--the media's fear mongering.
    - rrmm 6y ago
      > Minority communities' anxiety is the result of--not the cause for--the media's fear mongering. I would politely exhort you to do more research on the subject and meet members of the communities involved.
      - x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
        I've always been amazed at how when the black community mentions something to do with race, it's always seen as if we are making up some kind of elaborate fiction solely for slandering the United States.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        > I've always been amazed at how when the black community mentions something to do with race, it's always seen as if we are making up some kind of elaborate fiction solely for slandering the United States. That wasn't my claim, and you know it. I'm happy to be wrong, I'm just trying to make sense of the contrast between the data and public opinion. I'm genuinely very sorry for any emotional distress this debate causes and I know that the distress it's very one-sided, but I don't know how we are going to make social progress apart from real dialogue (both across political lines as well as racial lines). Why malign people who are trying to understand and help?
        rrmm 6y ago
        This stuff is highly charged. Doing it over text messages just makes things harder. I appreciate you are doing it good faith, but 400 years of blood makes for murky waters.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        I understand and agree. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago

woops there goes the nuance again :D

by rrmm 6y ago

woops there goes the nuance again :D

I don't get it. Do you believe that by oversimplifying the conversation you're going to actually solve problems? Do you think it's helpful? Or is the problem less worthy than venting your frustrations (and in the latter case, are the frustrations legitimate or simply a product of the aforementioned media misinformation)?

rrmm 6y ago
This conversation isn't going to solve the problem (but that is a cop-out). I think the metaphor though hyperbolic was a bit germane: I too have a lot of problems with media coverage in general. But the reason why it's covered a lot more is because it's often super egregious. So it's oversimplifying to not consider the impact to the community (especially given the long historical context of racial oppression). My frustrations are legitimate, as I'm sure are yours. Calling it 'media misinformation' is begging the question.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > But the reason why it's covered a lot more is because it's often super egregious. Daniel Shaver had no criminal history, he was unarmed in his own hotel room on his hands and knees begging for his life when a police officer shot him five times. Tim Timpa was pinned to the ground with at least one officer kneeling on his back while he struggled to breath, begging police officers to get off of him, saying they were going to kill him. He begged more than 30 times over the course of 14 minutes. The police officers joked about killing him even after he was unconscious and possibly even after he had died. Justine Damond was a 40 year old Australian-American woman who called the police to report a possible sexual assault in the alley near her home. She was unarmed and barefoot as she approached the police after they swept the alley in their squad car when they shot her in the chest. I don't see how these killings are less egregious than those that the media do report on. Moreover, there are also patently fraudulent media reports of racism, such as the Covington Catholic affair that are designed to get the nation in a race frenzy even if it means sending an angry mob after innocent children. I don't think "concern for the community" is motivating the media. Minority communities' anxiety is the result of--not the cause for--the media's fear mongering.
  - rrmm 6y ago
    > Minority communities' anxiety is the result of--not the cause for--the media's fear mongering. I would politely exhort you to do more research on the subject and meet members of the communities involved.
    - x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
      I've always been amazed at how when the black community mentions something to do with race, it's always seen as if we are making up some kind of elaborate fiction solely for slandering the United States.
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        > I've always been amazed at how when the black community mentions something to do with race, it's always seen as if we are making up some kind of elaborate fiction solely for slandering the United States. That wasn't my claim, and you know it. I'm happy to be wrong, I'm just trying to make sense of the contrast between the data and public opinion. I'm genuinely very sorry for any emotional distress this debate causes and I know that the distress it's very one-sided, but I don't know how we are going to make social progress apart from real dialogue (both across political lines as well as racial lines). Why malign people who are trying to understand and help?
        rrmm 6y ago
        This stuff is highly charged. Doing it over text messages just makes things harder. I appreciate you are doing it good faith, but 400 years of blood makes for murky waters.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        I understand and agree. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
    - throwaway894345 6y ago