4 ms·

My feeling is being in uniform and acting under color of authority without a badge and name tag should be a felony.

dragontamer 6y ago
Even if it were a felony, who would enforce it? Consider that NYPD, for all of its faults, actually has the Civilian Complaint Review Board. Which provides citizens the ability to officially complain about bad behaviors of various cops. However, review boards do not exist for all police forces. And many review boards have insufficient power to properly reprimand a specific cop who does a bad job. We need a specific organization to police the police. FBI kinda-sorta does it (but not under this administration. Under Obama, the FBI was charged with investigating police brutality). Since the FBI's orders changes with the whims of the President, it is clear we need a long-lasting organization that provides oversight even when a Republican is in office.
- beojan 6y ago
  > Since the FBI's orders changes with the whims of the President, it is clear we need a long-lasting organization that provides oversight even when a Republican is in office. That would require a constitutional amendment, right?
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    No. Just an act of Congress. Its actually relatively easy to change the structure of the executive branch. An executive order would do, but each President can overturn executive orders as they get elected. So it needs to be an Act of Congress if we want the organization to last between presidential terms. Of course, a future act of Congress could wipe it out, but that seems like a hard sell if we ensure that Americans remember the lessons from today's unrest.
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  > Even if it were a felony, who would enforce it? What if the law says explicitly that an officer in uniform without a badge and name tag has no legal authority and can be presumed to be committing a felony?
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    The law can set the speed limit whatever it wants. If there's no police officer there enforcing the speed limit, I'll drive at whatever speed I care to. The most important part of law, is law ENFORCEMENT. If you do not assign someone to enforce a law that is written, then it will be ignored.
    - thechao 6y ago
      It seems we need parallel executive branches. The second which is beholden to the polity, and who’s job is to police the former. That way we don’t have an automatic “regulatory capture”, which we currently have. Heck, let them go after each other: divide & conquer style. Maybe have the top-level official be elected at a very-fine granularity, but with the power to enforce across locality lines? Like—elect at the county level, but can enforce anywhere in the State?
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        I disagree. Frankly, the American people don't care enough to know their own President, Representative, Senator, Mayor, Governor, Sheriff, School Board, HOA committee members, county commission, and PTA board. If anything, we need more power consolidated into fewer people. So that Americans know who to blame. In many cases, these "police brutality" issues are extremely local, caused by the local Sheriffs of each individual location. And yet, people don't know who to blame when these things happen. There are too many positions, so officials can hide behind the confusion and avoid responsibility.
        thechao 6y ago
        That's the whole point of elect local, enforce non-locally. I trust that there's enough people in Austin to elect a secondary prosecutorial staff to go after bad actors through Travis & its surrounding counties. The idea is to give voters a bunch of chances to enforce this stuff.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
SauciestGNU 6y ago
More than that, I would honestly be unsurprised if they are resisted with deadly force, because of the impossibility of distinguishing them from a right wing militia. Were I serving on a jury for someone who killed one of these agents in self-defense there's not even a slight chance I would convict.
grecy 6y ago
Better yet, the person that ordered them to do it gets charged with a felony. And so on upwards.
jakeogh 6y ago
There are extra protections for law enforcement; that should be debated. Ultimately anyone can arrest anyone comitting a felony. Lighting a habitable structure on fire, or causing great bodily harm are ethical reasons to use any force necessary.

Even if it were a felony, who would enforce it? Consider that NYPD, for all of its faults, actually has the Civilian Complaint Review Board. Which provides citizens the ability to officially complain about bad behaviors of various cops. However, review boards do not exist for all police forces. And many review boards have insufficient power to properly reprimand a specific cop who does a bad job. We need a specific organization to police the police. FBI kinda-sorta does it (but not under this administration. Under Obama, the FBI was charged with investigating police brutality). Since the FBI's orders changes with the whims of the President, it is clear we need a long-lasting organization that provides oversight even when a Republican is in office.

beojan 6y ago
> Since the FBI's orders changes with the whims of the President, it is clear we need a long-lasting organization that provides oversight even when a Republican is in office. That would require a constitutional amendment, right?
- dragontamer 6y ago
  No. Just an act of Congress. Its actually relatively easy to change the structure of the executive branch. An executive order would do, but each President can overturn executive orders as they get elected. So it needs to be an Act of Congress if we want the organization to last between presidential terms. Of course, a future act of Congress could wipe it out, but that seems like a hard sell if we ensure that Americans remember the lessons from today's unrest.
Gibbon1 6y ago
> Even if it were a felony, who would enforce it? What if the law says explicitly that an officer in uniform without a badge and name tag has no legal authority and can be presumed to be committing a felony?
- dragontamer 6y ago
  The law can set the speed limit whatever it wants. If there's no police officer there enforcing the speed limit, I'll drive at whatever speed I care to. The most important part of law, is law ENFORCEMENT. If you do not assign someone to enforce a law that is written, then it will be ignored.
  - thechao 6y ago
    It seems we need parallel executive branches. The second which is beholden to the polity, and who’s job is to police the former. That way we don’t have an automatic “regulatory capture”, which we currently have. Heck, let them go after each other: divide & conquer style. Maybe have the top-level official be elected at a very-fine granularity, but with the power to enforce across locality lines? Like—elect at the county level, but can enforce anywhere in the State?
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      I disagree. Frankly, the American people don't care enough to know their own President, Representative, Senator, Mayor, Governor, Sheriff, School Board, HOA committee members, county commission, and PTA board. If anything, we need more power consolidated into fewer people. So that Americans know who to blame. In many cases, these "police brutality" issues are extremely local, caused by the local Sheriffs of each individual location. And yet, people don't know who to blame when these things happen. There are too many positions, so officials can hide behind the confusion and avoid responsibility.
      - thechao 6y ago
        That's the whole point of elect local, enforce non-locally. I trust that there's enough people in Austin to elect a secondary prosecutorial staff to go after bad actors through Travis & its surrounding counties. The idea is to give voters a bunch of chances to enforce this stuff.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago

SauciestGNU 6y ago

More than that, I would honestly be unsurprised if they are resisted with deadly force, because of the impossibility of distinguishing them from a right wing militia. Were I serving on a jury for someone who killed one of these agents in self-defense there's not even a slight chance I would convict.

grecy 6y ago

Better yet, the person that ordered them to do it gets charged with a felony. And so on upwards.

jakeogh 6y ago

There are extra protections for law enforcement; that should be debated. Ultimately anyone can arrest anyone comitting a felony. Lighting a habitable structure on fire, or causing great bodily harm are ethical reasons to use any force necessary.