5 ms·

> Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. I don’t think they’ve thought thr

> Is there not a legitimate role for policing in a civil society? Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. I don’t think they’ve thought through the consequences of that, but I guarantee a random poll would show most Americans want to abolish or >70% defund the police (which is effectively the same).

xwowsersx 6y ago
Where are you getting that from? Do you have polls you can point to that support the assertion that "Most Americans would say no to this question"?
microcolonel 6y ago
> Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. How is it possible to conclude this? There have been polls the last few days where more than half of respondents of both parties support sending the National Guard to quash the rioting and looting, and a significant proportion of Democrat respondents think the Federal government should send the U.S. military to do the same. If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. Now, given recent events on the top of the national consciousness, there is broad concern that some very bad police tend to be protected in many police departments, but that's an entirely different opinion.
- ryanSrich 6y ago
  > If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. This could be the case. Tier 3 on the West Coast in the US. Everyone marching and protesting want the police either completely gone or heavily defunded to the point where they basically don't exist.
- xwowsersx 6y ago
  Right. It seems to me that many here are making sweeping and unsubstantiated generalizations. There are problems in policing that need to be addressed, but to extrapolate from that that police are not necessary and/or are a net decrease in safety is really a conflation of two separate issues.
- scarface74 6y ago
  If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. Or in a community that is majority minority where they seem to get the brunt of “a few bad cops”.
javagram 6y ago
> Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. Actually random polls say the exact opposite of your guarantee. Only 15% of Americans support cutting police funding. https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/01/police-reform-america-poll https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...
komali2 6y ago
Your comment is unfair on three counts. One, your statistics are the reverse of reality. Two, the people that want to defund police are not the people that want to abolish the police. Considering the LAPD budget is 1.8 billion, and the NYPD budget is 6 billion, do you think that's by definition a bad position? Three, the minority that want to abolish the police (me, various anarchist and communist groups, some general leftist groups, alt-right libertarians), absolutely have thought out the consequences of that. Most are more on the "abolish and then reform from scratch" train, because there's evidence that this works (on mobile and can't grab right now, sorry), others are on the "abolish and then reform into an entirely different concept from what exists now train" (see: https://bostonreview.net/law-justice/derecka-purnell-what-does-police-abolition-mean https://bostonreview.net/law-justice/derecka-purnell-what-do...), and the tiniest sliver are on the "get rid of them all and make them never come back" train. I hope this helps clear up any confusion and/or strawmen.
- ryanSrich 6y ago
  Reform and abolish seem too nuanced to me in this case. You want the police to be something completely different from what it is today. Tearing down a house and building a car with the materials doesn't make a new house.
  - komali2 6y ago
    > Tearing down a house and building a car with the materials doesn't make a new house. Quite, you are accurately highlighting some of the differences between the various abolish/reform positions. I don't sense you challenging the supposition that simply lumping the abolish/reform groups into the same category is absurd given the above, so I'm not sure the purpose of your comment.
dmatech 6y ago
That might be the case of what's trending in the US on Twitter or in the media, but that's hardly a representative sample of the actual population.

xwowsersx 6y ago

Where are you getting that from? Do you have polls you can point to that support the assertion that "Most Americans would say no to this question"?

microcolonel 6y ago

> Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. How is it possible to conclude this? There have been polls the last few days where more than half of respondents of both parties support sending the National Guard to quash the rioting and looting, and a significant proportion of Democrat respondents think the Federal government should send the U.S. military to do the same. If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. Now, given recent events on the top of the national consciousness, there is broad concern that some very bad police tend to be protected in many police departments, but that's an entirely different opinion.

ryanSrich 6y ago
> If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. This could be the case. Tier 3 on the West Coast in the US. Everyone marching and protesting want the police either completely gone or heavily defunded to the point where they basically don't exist.
xwowsersx 6y ago
Right. It seems to me that many here are making sweeping and unsubstantiated generalizations. There are problems in policing that need to be addressed, but to extrapolate from that that police are not necessary and/or are a net decrease in safety is really a conflation of two separate issues.
scarface74 6y ago
If you live in a place where people broadly do not support the police as an institution, you live in an odd place. Or in a community that is majority minority where they seem to get the brunt of “a few bad cops”.

javagram 6y ago

> Look around. Most Americans would say no to this question. Actually random polls say the exact opposite of your guarantee. Only 15% of Americans support cutting police funding. https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/06/01/police-reform-america-poll https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...

komali2 6y ago

Your comment is unfair on three counts. One, your statistics are the reverse of reality. Two, the people that want to defund police are not the people that want to abolish the police. Considering the LAPD budget is 1.8 billion, and the NYPD budget is 6 billion, do you think that's by definition a bad position? Three, the minority that want to abolish the police (me, various anarchist and communist groups, some general leftist groups, alt-right libertarians), absolutely have thought out the consequences of that. Most are more on the "abolish and then reform from scratch" train, because there's evidence that this works (on mobile and can't grab right now, sorry), others are on the "abolish and then reform into an entirely different concept from what exists now train" (see: https://bostonreview.net/law-justice/derecka-purnell-what-does-police-abolition-mean https://bostonreview.net/law-justice/derecka-purnell-what-do...), and the tiniest sliver are on the "get rid of them all and make them never come back" train. I hope this helps clear up any confusion and/or strawmen.

ryanSrich 6y ago
Reform and abolish seem too nuanced to me in this case. You want the police to be something completely different from what it is today. Tearing down a house and building a car with the materials doesn't make a new house.
- komali2 6y ago
  > Tearing down a house and building a car with the materials doesn't make a new house. Quite, you are accurately highlighting some of the differences between the various abolish/reform positions. I don't sense you challenging the supposition that simply lumping the abolish/reform groups into the same category is absurd given the above, so I'm not sure the purpose of your comment.

dmatech 6y ago

That might be the case of what's trending in the US on Twitter or in the media, but that's hardly a representative sample of the actual population.