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> So much of what is happening now lies at your feet. I just don't know how much of a responsibility reddit has in strong-arming sub-reddits that are communiti

> So much of what is happening now lies at your feet. I just don't know how much of a responsibility reddit has in strong-arming sub-reddits that are communities, whether we like them or not. So I struggle with Ellen's indictment. It makes it seem like Reddit is a root level cause for where we are at today -- It's not, and is only a symptom. I believe it is unfair to say reddit, and their (somewhat) hands off approach to moderation inside a "community" is somehow the cornerstone to these ills, or that it did something to 'amplify' them

ilikehurdles 6y ago
Reddit, among other social media websites, has been used as an avenue for the radicalization of, particularly, young males.
- pstuart 6y ago
  Young males are primed for radicalization in general.
- pnako 6y ago
  What exactly do you mean by 'radicalization'? Do young males have opinions that are fundamentally different from their fathers or grandfathers?
  - ilikehurdles 6y ago
    The radical right capitalized on the whole gamergate scandal to push their agendas, and their fathers and grandfathers wouldn't have generally identified as gamers.
    - Avicebron 6y ago
      Gamergate in no way was totally responsible for the election of Trump. If anything invoking that Bannon capitalized on a small fraction of people in the movement is used as a cudgel by those wishing to shove their own political agenda down "gamer culture's" throat. Feeling excluded? Why not just destroy it instead. Pathetic.
      - ilikehurdles 6y ago
        I didn't accuse them of being responsible for the election of Trump, I accused them of being radicalized by far right entities.
    - luckylion 6y ago
      Well, yes, in that way nothing that happens today can be in any way, shape or form similar to something that happened 50 years ago. After all, they didn't have cell phones and Twitch back then.
      - ilikehurdles 6y ago
        Was I making a comparison? Was I shutting the door to one? Did I make a statement that in any way, shape, or form suggests that nothing today is similar to something that happened 50 years ago? I was stating what I still believe is a factual observation. I didn't claim or imply that other generations could not or were not radicalized throughout history. I wasn't suggesting that only young males can be radicalized, that reddit is the only place it can happen, that only right-wing entities have ever radicalized people, or that their opinions are somehow novel. Would you would like to argue that the groups associated with "gamergate" weren't on reddit, weren't radicalized, weren't radicalized by right-wing entities, weren't young, and/or weren't generally male?
        luckylion 6y ago
        > Would you would like to argue that the groups associated with "gamergate" weren't on reddit, weren't radicalized, weren't radicalized by right-wing entities, weren't young, and/or weren't generally male? Lots of people that cared about gamergate weren't "radicalized", they were pissed off. But mostly I'd argue that they are no different than their fathers or grandfathers. Those generations wouldn't have identified as gamers because that wasn't a thing back then, much like they wouldn't shout obscenities in Twitch chat, because that too didn't exist. They'd shout pretty much the same obscenities elsewhere though.
  - sosodev 6y ago
    I’m a young white man and I grew up in the Deep South (Alabama/Mississippi). I had just started eighth grade when I moved to a very small town in Mississippi. On my first day a group of white kids invited me to sit with them. They decided the best way to break the ice would be to tell me heinous racist jokes. For example, somebody would tell a “joke” about how they’d like to hang Obama from their Christmas tree and everybody would burst into laughter. All that is to say that I don’t think their opinions are different than those who raised them. They were children and had to have learned it from somebody. But they would never express their racism outside of small white groups because they knew at some level it was wrong. At some point in my teenage years I noticed a shift among these “friends”. They had joined online groups that echoed their sentiments and argued that it wasn’t wrong to be racist but rather it just makes you “woke” to go against the crowd. They think they’re just seeing the world differently. One guy in particular would say heinous racist things and immediately follow it up with something like “I’d rather die than live under communism”. He had become radicalized. He was no longer a closeted racist boy. Now he’s a fully grown racist man filled with vitriol.
- buttersbrian 6y ago
  What hasn't been used as an avenue? The point being, how much is "reddit" proper actually responsible? How much of that burden do they actually carry in policing isolated (by nature) and self-managed communities? I just don't know where that line is, and whether it's fair of Ellen to characterize it this way. And to do it as a response to what he's saying -- that comes off as somewhat tactless to me.
  - ilikehurdles 6y ago
    I don't believe that anyone is absolved of responsibility for their platform simply because the platform is "performing as designed", which is to say, with minimal moderation and policing of "self-managed" communities. It's hypocritical to hide behind the algorithm, the product, or the source code that allows extremist groups recruit when you're the one that built the product, and you're the one actively choosing to pursue market power at the expense of social good.
- tomjen3 6y ago
  As a (former) young male on reddit (and I started out on reddit when it had about 4 subs), I am not seeing much over radicalization done to people. Reddit is big enough that there are many radicals on there. I am definitely seeing opinions that aren't mainstream, and I have seen some subs self-radicalize. Self-radicalization seems mostly a consequence of more egregious things being upvoted more (e.g I don't even dare think what r/badcopnodonut looks like now) and a refusal to discuss things people see as issues. There is no reason on earth that gamegate went right wing, but the mainstream media sent hate their way and so they shifted away from those.

ilikehurdles 6y ago

Reddit, among other social media websites, has been used as an avenue for the radicalization of, particularly, young males.

pstuart 6y ago
Young males are primed for radicalization in general.
pnako 6y ago
What exactly do you mean by 'radicalization'? Do young males have opinions that are fundamentally different from their fathers or grandfathers?
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  The radical right capitalized on the whole gamergate scandal to push their agendas, and their fathers and grandfathers wouldn't have generally identified as gamers.
  - Avicebron 6y ago
    Gamergate in no way was totally responsible for the election of Trump. If anything invoking that Bannon capitalized on a small fraction of people in the movement is used as a cudgel by those wishing to shove their own political agenda down "gamer culture's" throat. Feeling excluded? Why not just destroy it instead. Pathetic.
    - ilikehurdles 6y ago
      I didn't accuse them of being responsible for the election of Trump, I accused them of being radicalized by far right entities.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    Well, yes, in that way nothing that happens today can be in any way, shape or form similar to something that happened 50 years ago. After all, they didn't have cell phones and Twitch back then.
    - ilikehurdles 6y ago
      Was I making a comparison? Was I shutting the door to one? Did I make a statement that in any way, shape, or form suggests that nothing today is similar to something that happened 50 years ago? I was stating what I still believe is a factual observation. I didn't claim or imply that other generations could not or were not radicalized throughout history. I wasn't suggesting that only young males can be radicalized, that reddit is the only place it can happen, that only right-wing entities have ever radicalized people, or that their opinions are somehow novel. Would you would like to argue that the groups associated with "gamergate" weren't on reddit, weren't radicalized, weren't radicalized by right-wing entities, weren't young, and/or weren't generally male?
      - luckylion 6y ago
        > Would you would like to argue that the groups associated with "gamergate" weren't on reddit, weren't radicalized, weren't radicalized by right-wing entities, weren't young, and/or weren't generally male? Lots of people that cared about gamergate weren't "radicalized", they were pissed off. But mostly I'd argue that they are no different than their fathers or grandfathers. Those generations wouldn't have identified as gamers because that wasn't a thing back then, much like they wouldn't shout obscenities in Twitch chat, because that too didn't exist. They'd shout pretty much the same obscenities elsewhere though.
- sosodev 6y ago
  I’m a young white man and I grew up in the Deep South (Alabama/Mississippi). I had just started eighth grade when I moved to a very small town in Mississippi. On my first day a group of white kids invited me to sit with them. They decided the best way to break the ice would be to tell me heinous racist jokes. For example, somebody would tell a “joke” about how they’d like to hang Obama from their Christmas tree and everybody would burst into laughter. All that is to say that I don’t think their opinions are different than those who raised them. They were children and had to have learned it from somebody. But they would never express their racism outside of small white groups because they knew at some level it was wrong. At some point in my teenage years I noticed a shift among these “friends”. They had joined online groups that echoed their sentiments and argued that it wasn’t wrong to be racist but rather it just makes you “woke” to go against the crowd. They think they’re just seeing the world differently. One guy in particular would say heinous racist things and immediately follow it up with something like “I’d rather die than live under communism”. He had become radicalized. He was no longer a closeted racist boy. Now he’s a fully grown racist man filled with vitriol.
buttersbrian 6y ago
What hasn't been used as an avenue? The point being, how much is "reddit" proper actually responsible? How much of that burden do they actually carry in policing isolated (by nature) and self-managed communities? I just don't know where that line is, and whether it's fair of Ellen to characterize it this way. And to do it as a response to what he's saying -- that comes off as somewhat tactless to me.
- ilikehurdles 6y ago
  I don't believe that anyone is absolved of responsibility for their platform simply because the platform is "performing as designed", which is to say, with minimal moderation and policing of "self-managed" communities. It's hypocritical to hide behind the algorithm, the product, or the source code that allows extremist groups recruit when you're the one that built the product, and you're the one actively choosing to pursue market power at the expense of social good.
tomjen3 6y ago
As a (former) young male on reddit (and I started out on reddit when it had about 4 subs), I am not seeing much over radicalization done to people. Reddit is big enough that there are many radicals on there. I am definitely seeing opinions that aren't mainstream, and I have seen some subs self-radicalize. Self-radicalization seems mostly a consequence of more egregious things being upvoted more (e.g I don't even dare think what r/badcopnodonut looks like now) and a refusal to discuss things people see as issues. There is no reason on earth that gamegate went right wing, but the mainstream media sent hate their way and so they shifted away from those.