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I think the point is that addressing police brutality is more important than stopping COVID-19 spread which is more important than going to work and visiting fa

by jolmg 6y ago

I think the point is that addressing police brutality is more important than stopping COVID-19 spread which is more important than going to work and visiting families.

war1025 6y ago
And that's a value judgement they can make. The issue is that ordering was different for millions of people and they didn't get a choice in the matter.
- jolmg 6y ago
  > issue is that ordering was different No, it's not. The ones that are protesting are also being ordered to disperse and go back home. The reason they're not is because they're disobeying. For those that aren't explicitly ordered, it's because it's pointless, given that civil disobedience is in the nature of protests.
  - war1025 6y ago
    Good luck disobeying if you are small business owner who was told you can no longer legally do business. On a more personal note, my 98 year old Grandma has been confined to her room at the nursing home for three months. Good luck to her civil disobeying orders.
    - jolmg 6y ago
      > Good luck disobeying if you are small business owner who was told you can no longer legally do business. Exactly. The fact that you can't effectively do a sizeable protest around that so goes to show how the population in general prioritizes these issues. > On a more personal note, my 98 year old Grandma has been confined to her room at the nursing home for three months. Good luck to her civil disobeying orders. Yeah, public support for your grandma risking getting sick is going to be even less.
mc32 6y ago
You can’t protest if you’re sick though. So I get it it’s a short term push to get recognition but if the pandemic is as bad as they say it means many people will be hospitalized or worse. Of course it’s a devils bargain, damnned if you do, damnned if you don’t, but it’s still present.
- jolmg 6y ago
  > You can’t protest if you’re sick though. I'm not sure if you mean "they can't join the protests when sick" or "they can't protest getting sick from doing this". For the former, I imagine those that are technically can if they really want to. For the latter, those that aren't are seemingly willing to take the risk of getting sick in order to help address this. > it means many people will be hospitalized or worse. Yes, they seem willing to risk that consequence.
agensaequivocum 6y ago
Except you're still killing grandma which is just as bad as police brutality.
- jolmg 6y ago
  The ones that agree with you would not support the protests, while the ones that disagree would.
  - agensaequivocum 6y ago
    Actually, in general we support the protest insofar as we agree that there are problems with certain police incentive structures. We heavily disagree with the rioting and looting. Where we disagree with some people is the generalized notion that the principles of America are inherently evil and racist and that Americans society now in general is racist.
    - jolmg 6y ago
      I thought news outlets had established that the looting was done by opportunists that are independent of the protesters. The rioting might also be independent of the protesters, perhaps to distract enforcement units away from the looting. Some of the looting does seem to be organized to a degree.
      - agensaequivocum 6y ago
        > looting was done by opportunists that are independent of the protesters That seems right, although I think there is probably a small degree of overlap. Unfortunately, I'm still seeing multitudes of people online defending the rioting and looting.
- alpha_squared 6y ago
  Is the argument, then, that protestors should wait until police brutality results in another death when it is more convenient to protest?

by jolmg 6y ago

I think the point is that addressing police brutality is more important than stopping COVID-19 spread which is more important than going to work and visiting families.

war1025 6y ago

And that's a value judgement they can make. The issue is that ordering was different for millions of people and they didn't get a choice in the matter.

jolmg 6y ago
> issue is that ordering was different No, it's not. The ones that are protesting are also being ordered to disperse and go back home. The reason they're not is because they're disobeying. For those that aren't explicitly ordered, it's because it's pointless, given that civil disobedience is in the nature of protests.
- war1025 6y ago
  Good luck disobeying if you are small business owner who was told you can no longer legally do business. On a more personal note, my 98 year old Grandma has been confined to her room at the nursing home for three months. Good luck to her civil disobeying orders.
  - jolmg 6y ago
    > Good luck disobeying if you are small business owner who was told you can no longer legally do business. Exactly. The fact that you can't effectively do a sizeable protest around that so goes to show how the population in general prioritizes these issues. > On a more personal note, my 98 year old Grandma has been confined to her room at the nursing home for three months. Good luck to her civil disobeying orders. Yeah, public support for your grandma risking getting sick is going to be even less.

mc32 6y ago

You can’t protest if you’re sick though. So I get it it’s a short term push to get recognition but if the pandemic is as bad as they say it means many people will be hospitalized or worse. Of course it’s a devils bargain, damnned if you do, damnned if you don’t, but it’s still present.

jolmg 6y ago
> You can’t protest if you’re sick though. I'm not sure if you mean "they can't join the protests when sick" or "they can't protest getting sick from doing this". For the former, I imagine those that are technically can if they really want to. For the latter, those that aren't are seemingly willing to take the risk of getting sick in order to help address this. > it means many people will be hospitalized or worse. Yes, they seem willing to risk that consequence.

agensaequivocum 6y ago

Except you're still killing grandma which is just as bad as police brutality.

jolmg 6y ago
The ones that agree with you would not support the protests, while the ones that disagree would.
- agensaequivocum 6y ago
  Actually, in general we support the protest insofar as we agree that there are problems with certain police incentive structures. We heavily disagree with the rioting and looting. Where we disagree with some people is the generalized notion that the principles of America are inherently evil and racist and that Americans society now in general is racist.
  - jolmg 6y ago
    I thought news outlets had established that the looting was done by opportunists that are independent of the protesters. The rioting might also be independent of the protesters, perhaps to distract enforcement units away from the looting. Some of the looting does seem to be organized to a degree.
    - agensaequivocum 6y ago
      > looting was done by opportunists that are independent of the protesters That seems right, although I think there is probably a small degree of overlap. Unfortunately, I'm still seeing multitudes of people online defending the rioting and looting.
alpha_squared 6y ago
Is the argument, then, that protestors should wait until police brutality results in another death when it is more convenient to protest?