4 ms·

Wow, sometimes companies are just out of their minds with the hoops they put up. I would definitely not invest that much time into a job application, especiall

by mattm 16y ago

Wow, sometimes companies are just out of their minds with the hoops they put up. I would definitely not invest that much time into a job application, especially before an initial interview to know if I even want to work there.

mechanical_fish 16y ago
This application is the initial interview. You now know that you don't want to work there. Saved both you and Reddit a lot of time. From the application: Well, first off, it's supposed to be fun. If you don't see the joy in either of these puzzles, please don't apply. Seems fair to me. Set high standards. You can always lower them later.
- davidw 16y ago
  > You now know that you don't want to work there If the filter were genuinely indicative of that, that would be great. However, my guess is that working there is quite different from doing makework puzzles for no pay (I hope, at least!). I don't think you get a good idea of what a place is like until you sit down and talk to the people involved and see the code. At least that much is possible.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - masklinn 16y ago
    > If the filter were genuinely indicative of that, that would be great. However, my guess is that working there is quite different from doing makework puzzles for no pay (I hope, at least!). The puzzles are in the links provided, why didn't you just go read them?
    - davidw 16y ago
      Because I have more interesting puzzles to work on: my own projects, many of which are available on the internet for potential clients or employers to look at should they wish to hire me.
      - masklinn 16y ago
        Let me recap: * You have the time to post on HN strongly implying that these "puzzles" are likely not that great (they're not even puzzles to start with) * You have the time to purposefully misread replies (I suggested that you go read them before judging them, not that you go work on them) and reply yourself * But you don't have the time to click on a link and read 20 lines of text?
        davidw 16y ago
        I actually had a look before, and they confirmed my impression that they're pretty much a waste of my time. The point is not whether I clicked through or not, the point is whether I'm going to spend my free time on my own projects, or completely useless projects for some company - they're not even things the company needs! I'm more than happy to be judged on the merits of what I've produced, both proprietary and open source, rather than fooling around with invented puzzles.
        mgkimsal 16y ago
        If the tasks were things the company needed directly, they'd be accused of trying to get people to 'work for free'.
      - raganwald 16y ago
        This is the wonderful thing about Homininae. I also have lots of my own work and at this very minute I have a ton of outstanding issues to close on the Faux framework alone. Nevertheless, programming puzzles are like catnip to me, so I don't mind solving them as part of a job interview process (or at least, I didn't mind the last time I was actually looking). I would NEVER say that I have a superior strategy to you, or that you have a superior strategy, or that programming puzzles are an excellent filter, or a terrible one. Just that some people will like them, and some not. You don't, that much is obvious. Or at least, you don't in the context of a job application. Fair enough, and nobody should ever suggest that (a) This is a bad idea on your part, or (b) on the basis of your anecdotal evidence, this is a bad idea on Reddit's part.
- mshron 16y ago
  That's exactly right. I did a similar quiz for my current job, and now I administer something similar when I look for new hires. It's amazing how many people with solid-looking resumes flub basic questions once you ask to see actual code they wrote.
  - jarek 16y ago
    The problem with this approach is that you never see the code of those not interested in jumping through your hoop.
  - mattm 16y ago
    I think its completely fine to have quizzes as part of the process but asking people to spend several hours on one before they´ve even talked to the company is a bit much IMO.
StavrosK 16y ago
Ah, thanks. A while ago I was interviewed by the SpiderOak team, who asked me to make a FAQ system with commenting and CAPTCHAs in Django to prove I could write code. This would only take one or two hours, but I've already developed countless web apps in Django so I felt rather bad that they wanted me to pass some arbitrary test before even talking to me (as you say). I thought it was just me being a primadonna, but I'm glad to find someone else thinking the same way. After all, my resume (which is full of all the things they ask) should be enough for at least an initial impression on their part. They never did bother to reply after I sent them the code. I actually now see that they have deployed a new FAQ system with commenting and CAPTCHAs, although it was simple enough that I don't think they'd just use my code.

by mattm 16y ago

mechanical_fish 16y ago

This application is the initial interview. You now know that you don't want to work there. Saved both you and Reddit a lot of time. From the application: Well, first off, it's supposed to be fun. If you don't see the joy in either of these puzzles, please don't apply. Seems fair to me. Set high standards. You can always lower them later.

davidw 16y ago
> You now know that you don't want to work there If the filter were genuinely indicative of that, that would be great. However, my guess is that working there is quite different from doing makework puzzles for no pay (I hope, at least!). I don't think you get a good idea of what a place is like until you sit down and talk to the people involved and see the code. At least that much is possible.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- masklinn 16y ago
  > If the filter were genuinely indicative of that, that would be great. However, my guess is that working there is quite different from doing makework puzzles for no pay (I hope, at least!). The puzzles are in the links provided, why didn't you just go read them?
  - davidw 16y ago
    Because I have more interesting puzzles to work on: my own projects, many of which are available on the internet for potential clients or employers to look at should they wish to hire me.
    - masklinn 16y ago
      Let me recap: * You have the time to post on HN strongly implying that these "puzzles" are likely not that great (they're not even puzzles to start with) * You have the time to purposefully misread replies (I suggested that you go read them before judging them, not that you go work on them) and reply yourself * But you don't have the time to click on a link and read 20 lines of text?
      - davidw 16y ago
        I actually had a look before, and they confirmed my impression that they're pretty much a waste of my time. The point is not whether I clicked through or not, the point is whether I'm going to spend my free time on my own projects, or completely useless projects for some company - they're not even things the company needs! I'm more than happy to be judged on the merits of what I've produced, both proprietary and open source, rather than fooling around with invented puzzles.
        mgkimsal 16y ago
        If the tasks were things the company needed directly, they'd be accused of trying to get people to 'work for free'.
    - raganwald 16y ago
      This is the wonderful thing about Homininae. I also have lots of my own work and at this very minute I have a ton of outstanding issues to close on the Faux framework alone. Nevertheless, programming puzzles are like catnip to me, so I don't mind solving them as part of a job interview process (or at least, I didn't mind the last time I was actually looking). I would NEVER say that I have a superior strategy to you, or that you have a superior strategy, or that programming puzzles are an excellent filter, or a terrible one. Just that some people will like them, and some not. You don't, that much is obvious. Or at least, you don't in the context of a job application. Fair enough, and nobody should ever suggest that (a) This is a bad idea on your part, or (b) on the basis of your anecdotal evidence, this is a bad idea on Reddit's part.
mshron 16y ago
That's exactly right. I did a similar quiz for my current job, and now I administer something similar when I look for new hires. It's amazing how many people with solid-looking resumes flub basic questions once you ask to see actual code they wrote.
- jarek 16y ago
  The problem with this approach is that you never see the code of those not interested in jumping through your hoop.
- mattm 16y ago
  I think its completely fine to have quizzes as part of the process but asking people to spend several hours on one before they´ve even talked to the company is a bit much IMO.

StavrosK 16y ago

Ah, thanks. A while ago I was interviewed by the SpiderOak team, who asked me to make a FAQ system with commenting and CAPTCHAs in Django to prove I could write code. This would only take one or two hours, but I've already developed countless web apps in Django so I felt rather bad that they wanted me to pass some arbitrary test before even talking to me (as you say). I thought it was just me being a primadonna, but I'm glad to find someone else thinking the same way. After all, my resume (which is full of all the things they ask) should be enough for at least an initial impression on their part. They never did bother to reply after I sent them the code. I actually now see that they have deployed a new FAQ system with commenting and CAPTCHAs, although it was simple enough that I don't think they'd just use my code.