5 ms·

> Expect to work for peanuts at the beginning - consider it advertising. This is terrible advice. Don't work for free, all you're doing is allowing other peop

> Expect to work for peanuts at the beginning - consider it advertising. This is terrible advice. Don't work for free, all you're doing is allowing other people to take advantage of you... which, they will. There's plenty of other great advice in this topic; this: "work hard and do a good job, for free and it'll be great experience / advertising / whatever the f" is total BS.

crc32 6y ago
OP didn't say "work for free", they said "work for peanuts". I agree that freelancer sites have some problematic aspects, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea that you need to start small and build a reputation/profile. This applies to any bootstrapped business, not just when working via freelancer sites.
- wokwokwok 6y ago
  I would argue work for peanuts and work for free are not significantly distinct on many freelance sites. Unless you're suggesting that there's a meaningful difference in doing 40 hours of work for 5 bucks and working for free?
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    There is if you get non-monetary benefits such as a 5 star review pushing you up in the rankings, thereby making it much easier to get future bookings at higher prices. Edit: conceptually, it's nore like an unpaid internship. I know someone who got a highly paid job by first doing it for free for 3 months to prove his skills, as he was lacking formal certifications Edit2: I honestly don't get why this is being downvoted. It's neither unfriendly nor offensive and it is relevant to the discussion, even if you might not like this aspect of reality.
    - ken 6y ago
      > I know someone who got a highly paid job by first doing it for free for 3 months to prove his skills And I know dozens of people who got burned by being talked into working for "exposure".
      - fxtentacle 6y ago
        In Germany, for such an unpaid internship you will have a contract that says that unless they fire you with a proper reason during those 3 months, your temporary contract will automatically convert into a permanent position. In many cases, it will also already list the salary that you can expect to receive after the 3 months are over. Plus you'll be meeting your future teammates every day in their office. To me, that is a very different level of commitment by the company than working for "exposure" for someone who has no intention of hiring you.
    - kelnos 6y ago
      > conceptually, it's nore like an unpaid internship. People should get paid for work they do. If a task is worth $0 to a company, then they can do without it. The whole "you're getting paid in valuable training/experience/exposure" thing is bunk, IMO.
  - reroute1 6y ago
    40 hours for 5 dollars is well beyond working peanuts that's just robbing people... Even Fiverr isn't close to this rate
  - andi999 6y ago
    Well, there is a difference. With 5 bucks per hour the OP is almost in his target range.
  - vorpalhex 6y ago
    Freelancing websites are about playing a game (reviews, ratings, stats) and you have to play the game to win. The first thing I do when I write a game or software is send out advance copies for free.
risyachka 6y ago
This is real advice. You can expect whatever you want but if you are just starting you will get peanuts, as this is your level and fair pay. Another situation is if you have experience but no portfolio. So you have two options - look forever for a project that will hire you without portfolio (usually this takes a long time, seen this many times), or you can complete few small projects for really small pay quickly and then you will be able to find a good-paying project way faster.
jasondigitized 6y ago
I disagree. I know someone who approached a company and said "I will work as a free intern for 3 months. If you want me to simply get coffee I will. It will be the best coffee you have ever had." 3 months later he had a full time offer and is now doing very well. Working for free indefinitely is bad advice, but offering a "freemium" model is rather savvy.
- mobilefriendly 6y ago
  A company that responded to this kind of solicitation would be unethical, at best, and is probably breaking employment law in the West.
- skinnymuch 6y ago
  That seems messed up. Seems like survivorship biasor something
woudsma 6y ago
Yes, they will take advantage of you, speaking from experience. Right after graduating I was paid ~750eu/mo for 60+hrs a week as a frontend dev in a first world country. It barely covered my rent. I had to borrow money from my parents to pay for food. I lasted 1 year at that first company. My next job, a small but awesome agency, took me -someone with an arts degree, 1 year frontend dev experience- as a junior full-stack developer and gave me the chance and challenges to develop myself further. Now, a few years later, I earn a relatively good salary as a JS consultant at another company. Being taking advantage of (financially) can have the effect of developing a thicker skin. You won't let it happen again after that. That's growth in my opinion. It doesn't take the fact away that you can earn just enough to survive while building up professional development experience, which you can add to your CV. It's tough, but it can be done! Grab any chance to gain professional experience. Also, try to stay creative! I know, it is super hard when you're broke / low on funds, there is no freedom in your head to think about anything else then surviving day to day or month to month. The comment above about contributing to open-source is really good. There are lots of projects that would love more contributors. Also it's a nice way to expand your network. And please, create a stunning personal website. Do some research into graphic design and try to create a professional but creative portfolio site. Next to your Github account, this is your business card.
question11 6y ago
My friend told me don't study for free.. make sure you get paid

crc32 6y ago

OP didn't say "work for free", they said "work for peanuts". I agree that freelancer sites have some problematic aspects, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the idea that you need to start small and build a reputation/profile. This applies to any bootstrapped business, not just when working via freelancer sites.

wokwokwok 6y ago
I would argue work for peanuts and work for free are not significantly distinct on many freelance sites. Unless you're suggesting that there's a meaningful difference in doing 40 hours of work for 5 bucks and working for free?
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  There is if you get non-monetary benefits such as a 5 star review pushing you up in the rankings, thereby making it much easier to get future bookings at higher prices. Edit: conceptually, it's nore like an unpaid internship. I know someone who got a highly paid job by first doing it for free for 3 months to prove his skills, as he was lacking formal certifications Edit2: I honestly don't get why this is being downvoted. It's neither unfriendly nor offensive and it is relevant to the discussion, even if you might not like this aspect of reality.
  - ken 6y ago
    > I know someone who got a highly paid job by first doing it for free for 3 months to prove his skills And I know dozens of people who got burned by being talked into working for "exposure".
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      In Germany, for such an unpaid internship you will have a contract that says that unless they fire you with a proper reason during those 3 months, your temporary contract will automatically convert into a permanent position. In many cases, it will also already list the salary that you can expect to receive after the 3 months are over. Plus you'll be meeting your future teammates every day in their office. To me, that is a very different level of commitment by the company than working for "exposure" for someone who has no intention of hiring you.
  - kelnos 6y ago
    > conceptually, it's nore like an unpaid internship. People should get paid for work they do. If a task is worth $0 to a company, then they can do without it. The whole "you're getting paid in valuable training/experience/exposure" thing is bunk, IMO.
- reroute1 6y ago
  40 hours for 5 dollars is well beyond working peanuts that's just robbing people... Even Fiverr isn't close to this rate
- andi999 6y ago
  Well, there is a difference. With 5 bucks per hour the OP is almost in his target range.
- vorpalhex 6y ago
  Freelancing websites are about playing a game (reviews, ratings, stats) and you have to play the game to win. The first thing I do when I write a game or software is send out advance copies for free.

risyachka 6y ago

This is real advice. You can expect whatever you want but if you are just starting you will get peanuts, as this is your level and fair pay. Another situation is if you have experience but no portfolio. So you have two options - look forever for a project that will hire you without portfolio (usually this takes a long time, seen this many times), or you can complete few small projects for really small pay quickly and then you will be able to find a good-paying project way faster.

jasondigitized 6y ago

I disagree. I know someone who approached a company and said "I will work as a free intern for 3 months. If you want me to simply get coffee I will. It will be the best coffee you have ever had." 3 months later he had a full time offer and is now doing very well. Working for free indefinitely is bad advice, but offering a "freemium" model is rather savvy.

mobilefriendly 6y ago
A company that responded to this kind of solicitation would be unethical, at best, and is probably breaking employment law in the West.
skinnymuch 6y ago
That seems messed up. Seems like survivorship biasor something

woudsma 6y ago

Yes, they will take advantage of you, speaking from experience. Right after graduating I was paid ~750eu/mo for 60+hrs a week as a frontend dev in a first world country. It barely covered my rent. I had to borrow money from my parents to pay for food. I lasted 1 year at that first company. My next job, a small but awesome agency, took me -someone with an arts degree, 1 year frontend dev experience- as a junior full-stack developer and gave me the chance and challenges to develop myself further. Now, a few years later, I earn a relatively good salary as a JS consultant at another company. Being taking advantage of (financially) can have the effect of developing a thicker skin. You won't let it happen again after that. That's growth in my opinion. It doesn't take the fact away that you can earn just enough to survive while building up professional development experience, which you can add to your CV. It's tough, but it can be done! Grab any chance to gain professional experience. Also, try to stay creative! I know, it is super hard when you're broke / low on funds, there is no freedom in your head to think about anything else then surviving day to day or month to month. The comment above about contributing to open-source is really good. There are lots of projects that would love more contributors. Also it's a nice way to expand your network. And please, create a stunning personal website. Do some research into graphic design and try to create a professional but creative portfolio site. Next to your Github account, this is your business card.

question11 6y ago

My friend told me don't study for free.. make sure you get paid