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When a project has 200 engineers and 50 in "overhead" (designers, marketing etc.) behind it though, and you break it off - how is that a startup? It's still a 2

When a project has 200 engineers and 50 in "overhead" (designers, marketing etc.) behind it though, and you break it off - how is that a startup? It's still a 250-person company. I don't see how just cutting it off restores agility that a tiny team with a nascent project has. A large project has more stuff to break with more people that need more links to communicate, increasing the inertia of the whole thing and slowing it down. What might be possible is some type of Skunk Works with independent leadership, which generates new ideas but leaves the fleshing out to the rest of the company. It wouldn't be associated with longterm management of one project though, more as an incubator and consultancy that spins off and checks in on projects they initiated.

willifred 16y ago
>200 engineers and 50 in 'overhead' (designers, marketing etc.) Is this a deliberate attempt to troll or are designers nothing but overhead? Poor design, particularly poor interface design, is considered a major factor in many of Google's product failures (Wave, Google TV, Buzz, et al). User interface design and consistency are frequently cited as the largest remaining gap between the Android and iOS experiences.
- ytkliu 16y ago
  I'd have to heartily agree with this sentiment. While oftentimes I think we do see engineers get marginalized in favor of "business" employees or designers to disastrous effect, it's important to recognize the importance of UI/UX, especially on consumer-facing products. While Apple and its extreme focus on UX is the most prominent example, many web startups have seen success due to a combination of good marketing and design (Tumblr, Facebook (vs. Myspace), Instagram, and Flipboard come immediately to mind).
- TillE 16y ago
  I assume the quotes implied sarcasm. And in fairness, Wave and Android are hardly perfect examples of engineering. Wave was buggy and never added significant features, Android is still sluggish compared to iOS on similar hardware. Google tends to lack clear direction/leadership/vision at a product level, not just UI design.
  - jamesaguilar 16y ago
    Anyway, it will never be like a startup again until moves are made from necessity, not whim.
- alnayyir 16y ago
  To be fair, a lot of Wave's problems could've been nipped long before it got to the designers. The app was just plain slow. Speed is a quality all of its own.
- pdaviesa 16y ago
  Where's the marketing love?

willifred 16y ago

>200 engineers and 50 in 'overhead' (designers, marketing etc.) Is this a deliberate attempt to troll or are designers nothing but overhead? Poor design, particularly poor interface design, is considered a major factor in many of Google's product failures (Wave, Google TV, Buzz, et al). User interface design and consistency are frequently cited as the largest remaining gap between the Android and iOS experiences.

ytkliu 16y ago
I'd have to heartily agree with this sentiment. While oftentimes I think we do see engineers get marginalized in favor of "business" employees or designers to disastrous effect, it's important to recognize the importance of UI/UX, especially on consumer-facing products. While Apple and its extreme focus on UX is the most prominent example, many web startups have seen success due to a combination of good marketing and design (Tumblr, Facebook (vs. Myspace), Instagram, and Flipboard come immediately to mind).
TillE 16y ago
I assume the quotes implied sarcasm. And in fairness, Wave and Android are hardly perfect examples of engineering. Wave was buggy and never added significant features, Android is still sluggish compared to iOS on similar hardware. Google tends to lack clear direction/leadership/vision at a product level, not just UI design.
- jamesaguilar 16y ago
  Anyway, it will never be like a startup again until moves are made from necessity, not whim.
alnayyir 16y ago
To be fair, a lot of Wave's problems could've been nipped long before it got to the designers. The app was just plain slow. Speed is a quality all of its own.
pdaviesa 16y ago
Where's the marketing love?