6 ms·

>You'd think people would learn. Learn what? The link just goes into a long bit of semantics stemming from the author's personal dislike of how other people us

>You'd think people would learn. Learn what? The link just goes into a long bit of semantics stemming from the author's personal dislike of how other people use "untranslatable" as a word. There's nothing to "learn" from it, because it's a nothingburger. Meanwhile, most if not all language teaching that goes on today still does treat translation as bijection. Students are constantly asked to remember "the word for X in language Y". While that might be a good-enough approximation, it also majorly encourages the idea that that's how translation itself works - so people might be forgiven trying to set the record straight by pointing out that many words are "untranslatable" that way.

signal11 6y ago
> the author's personal dislike of how other people use "untranslatable" as a word Language Log isn't a personal blog, it's a group blog run by some fairly distinguished linguists, and their[1] point about bijection is coherently argued and deserves consideration. > most if not all language teaching that goes on today still does treat translation as bijection I'm not convinced - beyond beginner-level one quickly realizes that translation is not one-to-one. Is there a citation for this? [1] 'Their' because "no word for X" is a running joke in LL: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1081 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1081
- ivanbakel 6y ago
  >I'm not convinced - beyond beginner-level one quickly realizes that translation is not one-to-one. You don't believe the vast majority of language teaching happens at the beginner level? I certainly do, and it would be most people's only first-hand exposure to any kind of translation.
  - signal11 6y ago
    I should clarify that by beginner-level I meant "alphabet book level". A for apple, B for balai, C for conejo, etc. At beginner level language teaching, beyond the first few lessons, you run into words that are difficult to translate bijectively, e.g. ser/estar while learning Spanish from English.
bennyelv 6y ago
"Nothingburger" - I've not heard that word before, is it an American word that doesn't translate to English :)
- Anarch157a 6y ago
  Linus Sebastian from LTT uses it a lot, so it already made it to Canada. I think the closest translation to English (yeah, I know) would be "non-issue".
- lb1lf 6y ago
  As a former colleague of me liked to quip - "The UK and the US are two countries divided by a common language." Being a Scot, he usually followed up with a "They should settle on Scottish as a compromise!"
- mc32 6y ago
  I think it has its genesis in an old Wendys ad campaign “where’s the beef” poking fun at Macdonald’s. So in the news it was popularized when talking heads surmised the whole “Russia collusion” was a “nothingburger”. It had no substance —harking back to “where’s the beef?”
- rxhernandez 6y ago
  It looks like it was added to the Oxford English Dictionary 2 years ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45763136 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45763136

signal11 6y ago

> the author's personal dislike of how other people use "untranslatable" as a word Language Log isn't a personal blog, it's a group blog run by some fairly distinguished linguists, and their[1] point about bijection is coherently argued and deserves consideration. > most if not all language teaching that goes on today still does treat translation as bijection I'm not convinced - beyond beginner-level one quickly realizes that translation is not one-to-one. Is there a citation for this? [1] 'Their' because "no word for X" is a running joke in LL: https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1081 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1081

ivanbakel 6y ago
>I'm not convinced - beyond beginner-level one quickly realizes that translation is not one-to-one. You don't believe the vast majority of language teaching happens at the beginner level? I certainly do, and it would be most people's only first-hand exposure to any kind of translation.
- signal11 6y ago
  I should clarify that by beginner-level I meant "alphabet book level". A for apple, B for balai, C for conejo, etc. At beginner level language teaching, beyond the first few lessons, you run into words that are difficult to translate bijectively, e.g. ser/estar while learning Spanish from English.

bennyelv 6y ago

"Nothingburger" - I've not heard that word before, is it an American word that doesn't translate to English :)

Anarch157a 6y ago
Linus Sebastian from LTT uses it a lot, so it already made it to Canada. I think the closest translation to English (yeah, I know) would be "non-issue".
lb1lf 6y ago
As a former colleague of me liked to quip - "The UK and the US are two countries divided by a common language." Being a Scot, he usually followed up with a "They should settle on Scottish as a compromise!"
mc32 6y ago
I think it has its genesis in an old Wendys ad campaign “where’s the beef” poking fun at Macdonald’s. So in the news it was popularized when talking heads surmised the whole “Russia collusion” was a “nothingburger”. It had no substance —harking back to “where’s the beef?”
rxhernandez 6y ago
It looks like it was added to the Oxford English Dictionary 2 years ago: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45763136 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45763136