4 ms·

Upvoted. The backlash against HS2 is really annoying, yes it is expensive and some people think it won't benefit the country much - but you covered the reasons

Upvoted. The backlash against HS2 is really annoying, yes it is expensive and some people think it won't benefit the country much - but you covered the reasons why we should be continuing with this project.

Brakenshire 6y ago
HS2 only connects together the largest city, the second largest city, the third largest city, the fourth largest city, the fifth largest city, the seventh largest city and the ninth largest city in the UK together on a single branched train line which will allow travel between them within an hour and a half. Who cares about such economic frivolity!
- BlackVanilla 6y ago
  This highlights a flaw with the UK's infrastructure projects. The UK is focused on connecting cities with cities, not connection within cities and towns. Asides from London, plenty of cities and big towns suffer from poor public transport. Getting from one side of town to another without a car should not be a struggle. Right now, I think this should be prioritised above city to city public transport links.
  - ljm 6y ago
    Considering I have to visit Cheshire every now and then to see family, the worst part of the journey isn't the Pendolino up to Crewe, but travelling to the train station out to where I need to be. Some of those stations are completely inaccessible without a car, there's no way you could walk it in decent time or without waiting for an infrequent bus.
    - iso1631 6y ago
      Which stations? Nantwich has a fairly decent service aside from Sundays, Wrenbury isn't too bad either, and both have a fairly decent connection The problem in south west cheshire is many places not only aren't on a rail line, they aren't dense enough to keep a bus service running, even with subsidies
  - M2Ys4U 6y ago
    > This highlights a flaw with the UK's infrastructure projects. The UK is focused on connecting cities with cities, not connection within cities and towns. I agree, but HS2 will provide a huge benefit local and regional rail services rather than what most people assume: Faster travel in and out of London. Frankly we need a lot more investment into light rail (trams etc.) and buses as well as HS2 and NPR.
- youngtaff 6y ago
  HS2 isn't just about connecting cities it's about releasing capacity for more local services. Midlands Connect say HS2 will improve services to 73 stations, 53 of which aren't connected to HS2 [1] It also introduces capacity gains for commuter lines into Euston (can't find the link for that) I'd encourage everyone to read Rail Magazine's take on why we should build H2S [2] 1. https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-capacity/ https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-cap... 2. https://www.railmagazine.com/research-hub/comment/comment-special-let-s-get-hs2-done https://www.railmagazine.com/research-hub/comment/comment-sp...
  - reallydontask 6y ago
    I could well be wrong but this was never one of the touted benefits of HS2 when it was being (mis?)sold to the British public, which makes me very suspicious. Furthermore, I would guess that the post coronavirus emphasis on remote work would make it less important, only time will tell.
    - gsnedders 6y ago
      > I could well be wrong but this was never one of the touted benefits of HS2 when it was being (mis?)sold to the British public, which makes me very suspicious. At least https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16485263 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16485263 talks about capacity a fair bit? > Furthermore, I would guess that the post coronavirus emphasis on remote work would make it less important, only time will tell. It's worthwhile remembering that number of people heading into cities has been rising year-over-year for a long time. Even if we see a 25% decrease in travel, any freed up rail capacity would likely just be taken up by people moving from road to rail. And with a larger decrease, while rail might drop away from being at capacity for a few years it's highly likely to increase again in future.
    - wastedhours 6y ago
      The capacity easing was always the main reason pushed to those in the know, it was easier to sell to the public based on some new top line figures though, so that's the reason that narrative was used. HS2 is almost all about easing local commuter routes.
oakesm9 6y ago
The issue with a high speed rail project like HS2 is that the people most affected by it are the ones who don't see much direct benefits from it. If the line is coming past you then you have to put up with the noise from it and the building and land use change issues, but you don't get to actually use it as there won't be any stations for you. It's not possible to add stations mid-line as that would slow down the "high speed" aspect. You can see this in the survey results where regions like the midlands have higher levels of opposition and those at the end of the lines: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/survey-results/daily/2020/01/21/39d16/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/survey-results/daily/2...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  > The issue with a high speed rail project like HS2 is that the people most affected by it are the ones who don't see much direct benefits from it. >If the line is coming past you then you have to put up with the noise from it and the building and land use change issues, but you don't get to actually use it as there won't be any stations for you. It's not possible to add stations mid-line as that would slow down the "high speed" aspect. Except that's actually nonsense. Most of the benefit comes from moving the intercity trains off of the WCML meaning more local and regional trains can be run.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    However the line itself runs through expensive Buckinghamshire villages, this line won't relieve the Chiltern main line much. While those in Milton Keynes, Northmapton, Hemel Hempstead etc will love the extra services and space to London, and the increased services and reliability on the Rugby->Wolverhampton and Bimingham-Nottingham corridors will be great, those somewhere like Wendover won't see any benefit.
adwww 6y ago
Some of the backlash could be a bit justified, but the various 'green' groups campaigning against it are strangely silent about the Silvertown Tunnel or the £27bn road-building programme...

Brakenshire 6y ago

HS2 only connects together the largest city, the second largest city, the third largest city, the fourth largest city, the fifth largest city, the seventh largest city and the ninth largest city in the UK together on a single branched train line which will allow travel between them within an hour and a half. Who cares about such economic frivolity!

BlackVanilla 6y ago
This highlights a flaw with the UK's infrastructure projects. The UK is focused on connecting cities with cities, not connection within cities and towns. Asides from London, plenty of cities and big towns suffer from poor public transport. Getting from one side of town to another without a car should not be a struggle. Right now, I think this should be prioritised above city to city public transport links.
- ljm 6y ago
  Considering I have to visit Cheshire every now and then to see family, the worst part of the journey isn't the Pendolino up to Crewe, but travelling to the train station out to where I need to be. Some of those stations are completely inaccessible without a car, there's no way you could walk it in decent time or without waiting for an infrequent bus.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    Which stations? Nantwich has a fairly decent service aside from Sundays, Wrenbury isn't too bad either, and both have a fairly decent connection The problem in south west cheshire is many places not only aren't on a rail line, they aren't dense enough to keep a bus service running, even with subsidies
- M2Ys4U 6y ago
  > This highlights a flaw with the UK's infrastructure projects. The UK is focused on connecting cities with cities, not connection within cities and towns. I agree, but HS2 will provide a huge benefit local and regional rail services rather than what most people assume: Faster travel in and out of London. Frankly we need a lot more investment into light rail (trams etc.) and buses as well as HS2 and NPR.
youngtaff 6y ago
HS2 isn't just about connecting cities it's about releasing capacity for more local services. Midlands Connect say HS2 will improve services to 73 stations, 53 of which aren't connected to HS2 [1] It also introduces capacity gains for commuter lines into Euston (can't find the link for that) I'd encourage everyone to read Rail Magazine's take on why we should build H2S [2] 1. https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-capacity/ https://www.midlandsconnect.uk/publications/hs2-released-cap... 2. https://www.railmagazine.com/research-hub/comment/comment-special-let-s-get-hs2-done https://www.railmagazine.com/research-hub/comment/comment-sp...
- reallydontask 6y ago
  I could well be wrong but this was never one of the touted benefits of HS2 when it was being (mis?)sold to the British public, which makes me very suspicious. Furthermore, I would guess that the post coronavirus emphasis on remote work would make it less important, only time will tell.
  - gsnedders 6y ago
    > I could well be wrong but this was never one of the touted benefits of HS2 when it was being (mis?)sold to the British public, which makes me very suspicious. At least https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16485263 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16485263 talks about capacity a fair bit? > Furthermore, I would guess that the post coronavirus emphasis on remote work would make it less important, only time will tell. It's worthwhile remembering that number of people heading into cities has been rising year-over-year for a long time. Even if we see a 25% decrease in travel, any freed up rail capacity would likely just be taken up by people moving from road to rail. And with a larger decrease, while rail might drop away from being at capacity for a few years it's highly likely to increase again in future.
  - wastedhours 6y ago
    The capacity easing was always the main reason pushed to those in the know, it was easier to sell to the public based on some new top line figures though, so that's the reason that narrative was used. HS2 is almost all about easing local commuter routes.

oakesm9 6y ago

The issue with a high speed rail project like HS2 is that the people most affected by it are the ones who don't see much direct benefits from it. If the line is coming past you then you have to put up with the noise from it and the building and land use change issues, but you don't get to actually use it as there won't be any stations for you. It's not possible to add stations mid-line as that would slow down the "high speed" aspect. You can see this in the survey results where regions like the midlands have higher levels of opposition and those at the end of the lines: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/survey-results/daily/2020/01/21/39d16/1 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/survey-results/daily/2...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
M2Ys4U 6y ago
> The issue with a high speed rail project like HS2 is that the people most affected by it are the ones who don't see much direct benefits from it. >If the line is coming past you then you have to put up with the noise from it and the building and land use change issues, but you don't get to actually use it as there won't be any stations for you. It's not possible to add stations mid-line as that would slow down the "high speed" aspect. Except that's actually nonsense. Most of the benefit comes from moving the intercity trains off of the WCML meaning more local and regional trains can be run.
- iso1631 6y ago
  However the line itself runs through expensive Buckinghamshire villages, this line won't relieve the Chiltern main line much. While those in Milton Keynes, Northmapton, Hemel Hempstead etc will love the extra services and space to London, and the increased services and reliability on the Rugby->Wolverhampton and Bimingham-Nottingham corridors will be great, those somewhere like Wendover won't see any benefit.

adwww 6y ago

Some of the backlash could be a bit justified, but the various 'green' groups campaigning against it are strangely silent about the Silvertown Tunnel or the £27bn road-building programme...