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What is the difference, to you? To me, working for improvement can too easily become redirected towards self-aggrandisement. I did this, I accomplished this. Wo

What is the difference, to you? To me, working for improvement can too easily become redirected towards self-aggrandisement. I did this, I accomplished this. Working for justice implies that laws and rights, natural or human-made, are being denied and broken.

NalNezumi 6y ago
Improvements are (often) incremental, and easier to break down in to actionable tasks. You can also already start on existing work/not working parts. Justice on the other hand is (often) focused on the end-goal, which is much harder to break down to actionable task. Work on social and environmental improvements by the day, asses it on social and environmental justice every month.
andi999 6y ago
Yes, one should avoid that. I mean there are a few problems with focussing on justice (you might disagree of course): - justice cannot be achieved. Look at the courtrooms (which is actually there to serve justice), but is the verdict really justice? So persuing justice can make you cynical - for the example of social justice, you could approach it by thinking it is just (or solves the justice problem) to take away the wealth of the rich. Does this improve the social condition of the unfortunate? Also this can make you radical and bitter. - Also if you go for justice, you might start to see a lot of things as 'unfair' this is a negative feeling Generally I believe a mindset of helping others/nature by planning to improving things is better (for the cause itself and for oneself) than trying to fight perceived injustices.
antepodius 6y ago
It just seems like if you rally under the flag of justice, meaning to improve the condition of the world, you also attract people who are interested in retribution and punishment (another element of justice). Lots of middle-class activists for justice, for example, don't actually seem like most of the poor very much (understandable: the poor are a basket of useful idiot deplorables). They're more motivated by their hatred for the rich, and punishing someone is still justice, even if that won't actually improve the material conditions of the poor (which isn't that big a problem, because some of them are trump voters and we still have to punish them).

NalNezumi 6y ago

Improvements are (often) incremental, and easier to break down in to actionable tasks. You can also already start on existing work/not working parts. Justice on the other hand is (often) focused on the end-goal, which is much harder to break down to actionable task. Work on social and environmental improvements by the day, asses it on social and environmental justice every month.

andi999 6y ago

Yes, one should avoid that. I mean there are a few problems with focussing on justice (you might disagree of course): - justice cannot be achieved. Look at the courtrooms (which is actually there to serve justice), but is the verdict really justice? So persuing justice can make you cynical - for the example of social justice, you could approach it by thinking it is just (or solves the justice problem) to take away the wealth of the rich. Does this improve the social condition of the unfortunate? Also this can make you radical and bitter. - Also if you go for justice, you might start to see a lot of things as 'unfair' this is a negative feeling Generally I believe a mindset of helping others/nature by planning to improving things is better (for the cause itself and for oneself) than trying to fight perceived injustices.

antepodius 6y ago

It just seems like if you rally under the flag of justice, meaning to improve the condition of the world, you also attract people who are interested in retribution and punishment (another element of justice). Lots of middle-class activists for justice, for example, don't actually seem like most of the poor very much (understandable: the poor are a basket of useful idiot deplorables). They're more motivated by their hatred for the rich, and punishing someone is still justice, even if that won't actually improve the material conditions of the poor (which isn't that big a problem, because some of them are trump voters and we still have to punish them).