6 ms·
Honestly there are very capable and smart engineers in France, and I don't blame the country ambition to develop its own solutions, but the SSII mafia (or how a
by flr03 6y ago
Honestly there are very capable and smart engineers in France, and I don't blame the country ambition to develop its own solutions, but the SSII mafia (or how are they called now?) is killing innovation.
It's a very top to bottom decision process (starting from the Government/MP), with big bucks involved, and very little understanding of how to drive these tech projects, all the way to the bottom.
What I don't understand is the status-quo after years and years of failed projects. What a waste of tax payer money.
- Nextgrid 6y ago> there are very capable and smart engineers in France I would not be so sure. I looked at the IT salaries there (both as a permanent and as a contractor) and it just doesn’t make sense to stay there when you could earn way more money elsewhere in Europe.
- jcelerier 6y agothat's assuming money is the one important thing in your life though :p I'd personally need at least 3 times my current french salary to start thinking about compromising my other life choices
- thiht 6y agoThat's not how it works, not everyone wants to move country just for a (way) better salary.
- realusername 6y agoThere's definitely an IT brain drain in France due to low salaries, very few people of my former school actually work for a french company anymore, they almost all went somewhere else to get a better pay. In the post-covid world of increased remote working, the brain drain will likely increase tenfold since developers won't even have to leave the country anymore.
- namdnay 6y agoI think there is a bit of a brain drain, but it's also compensated by great engineers from poorer countries (Italy, Romania, Poland etc) migrating in If remote works, it won't really be a brain drain anymore, because they'll be paying taxes and spending their money in France :)
- Nextgrid 6y agoIs there any reason why the engineers from poorer countries will emigrate to France instead of the better-paying countries?
- namdnay 6y agoI don't know, I think you have to look at it with an EU scope. Within Shengen only Luxemburg and Switzerland pay significantly better than France. Germany is more or less aligned
- paganel 6y agoRomanian programmer here (I still live in Romania), I would choose another European country over a well-better paid job in the US in almost all cases, the reason being that that way I'd be closer to home, we actually have decent healthcare in Europe and the social contract as a whole is more robust compared to the US (it mentally helps going out on the street and not seeing the multitude of homeless people that I've read one can find on the streets of San Francisco), public transport is decent to exceptional and for me personally there's also the gun-control issue (or lack of it, more exactly), I really don't see myself living long-term in a country as gun-loving as the US is.
- heavenlyblue 6y agoI think it’s UK/Germany vs France rather than US vs France
- flyinglizard 6y agoSan Francisco’s homelessness situation is an exception, certainly not the rule. It’s an entire industry in SF with a turnover of $xxx million. Other cities in the US are much more in line with the big EU cities in that regard.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- boudin 6y agoI know plenty of really capable and smart people in France that doesn't want to leave the country. Living somewhere is not just about salary, and quality of life as a software engineer is quite good in France.
- Bayart 6y agoSalaries have diminishing returns too. If you balance income and quality of life, if you can reach a certain point that's reasonable for you, it doesn't make sense at all to go through the trouble of moving. Anyway the US is really at the bottom of the list. Most people would prefer anywhere in Europe or at worse Canada and Australia.
- drstewart 6y ago>Anyway the US is really at the bottom of the list. Most people would prefer anywhere in Europe or at worse Canada and Australia. Too bad none of the immigration numbers bear this out. Friendly reminder that what you prefer does not necessarily generalize.
- Bayart 6y ago>Too bad none of the immigration numbers bear this out. They do. The only country in Europe I can think of where the US is the favored destination is Germany. Note that by « most people » I was implicitly referring to my people, and in a larger sense Europeans. Not humanity at large.
- maelito 6y agoI can assure you that with my salary, working as a Web developer for the french government, it makes a lot of sense to stay in France.
- wikibob 6y agoHow much is your salary? How much is your tax rate? And your contribution sociale? What are your monthly expenses? One reason EU salaries are so low is that everyone is afraid of discussing their salaries. In the USA there is levels.fyi with widely validated salaries.
- speedgoose 6y agoThey are called ESN now. Same shit.
- namdnay 6y agoThats not really specific to France. Any large government contract in any country will go to bodyshops like Accenture, Cap Gemini, IBM, TCS etc. The difference is that the French government keeps thinking that innovation is a top-down process that can be managed like you would manage an aircraft program or a nuclear power plant