4 ms·

The crazy bit of this is that this is where the tunnels will be built: https://www.hs2.org.uk/where/route-map/#12/51.6609/-0.5849 https://www.hs2.org.uk/where/r

by buro9 6y ago

The crazy bit of this is that this is where the tunnels will be built: https://www.hs2.org.uk/where/route-map/#12/51.6609/-0.5849 https://www.hs2.org.uk/where/route-map/#12/51.6609/-0.5849 "from just inside the M25 to South Heath in Buckinghamshire" South Heath is here https://www.google.com/maps/place/South+Heath/@51.7054459,-0.6893411,11.37z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x48765e6963dc0a2d:0xe00016c272f1065e!2sSouth+Heath,+Great+Missenden!3b1!8m2!3d51.710744!4d-0.6866789!3m4!1s0x48765e6ec734927d:0xdc5eb80894c2f27c!8m2!3d51.7092146!4d-0.682869 https://www.google.com/maps/place/South+Heath/@51.7054459,-0... We are going to tunnel through open country due to the politics and objections from land owners. It is no surprise that the costs have risen.

londons_explore 6y ago
It's about time we just did a big nationwide vote for big infrastructure projects. Voters can decide if they want to pay an extra few billion pounds or to keep a little farm village.
- Already__Taken 6y ago
  That's all very well and good until it's your village. And you know full well it's never the Lords and Lady's in this country at risk of their shooting grounds getting a train through it.
  - arethuza 6y ago
    The massive viaducts at Cullen in Scotland were apparently required to route the railway away from Cullen House: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen,_Moray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen,_Moray
- growlist 6y ago
  These smaller countryside settlements are precious and wonderful to me. Our towns and especially cities are rapidly losing their individual character with the influence of globalised media, mass immigration and an increasingly commodified and vapid consumerist culture. Please don't will the destruction of the few small pockets of distinctively English heritage we have left.
DrBazza 6y ago
Presumably cost analysis has been done and the cost of buying land through compulsory purchase is far higher than tunnelling. Crazy, but true. HS1 only has 4 significant tunnels, St Pancras to Rainham, the Thames Tunnel, Bluebell Hill, and the approach into Ashford International. Some of the major costs was moving some houses out of the way (by using pistons), and moving and removing bridges. HS1 followed the Regents Canal out of London, the A2, and then M20 motorway through Kent. Looks like HS2 isn't following any significant roads.
- lmm 6y ago
  > Presumably cost analysis has been done and the cost of buying land through compulsory purchase is far higher than tunnelling. Crazy, but true. Nope. The tunnelling is uneconomic, but locals were able to ban the line from being built on the surface on the grounds that it's in a designated Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (a status that is disproportionately applied in the rich south of the country).
  - iso1631 6y ago
    Rich landowners in the south get away with paying peanuts The property tax for a house in 16 acres of pristine AONB in Buckinghamshire, worth £8m [0], is £3806 a year -- 0.04% The property tax for a 2 bed terrace in Stoke-on-Trent for £65k [1] is £1107 -- 1.7%, 42 times higher. [0] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62169501.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62169... [1] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80532553.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80532...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
growlist 6y ago
It's a shame we can't put the whole thing underground, though I suppose it would spoil the view for passengers! I've also wondered how expensive it would be to just build the whole thing on a flyover over the M1 for example - no doubt insanely expensive.
- gsnedders 6y ago
  > I've also wondered how expensive it would be to just build the whole thing on a flyover over the M1 for example - no doubt insanely expensive. Would be impossible to have an alignment suitable for 400km/h like that (and even if it were, difficult to build without disruption the M1 significantly).
  - growlist 6y ago
    The alignment point goes without saying. As regards the disruption, have you tried driving anywhere recently? There's been huge disruption from conversion to smart motorways for years.
Gibbon1 6y ago
California High Speed rail got sued by wealthy land owners because they didn't want a rail tunnel under their play school 'horse ranches'
- chris_va 6y ago
  Citation? Anyone can file a lawsuit, doesn't mean it stuck ... Of course, why we'd want to pay $100B for a slower, more dangerous [1] way to travel around CA is beyond me (and I say that as someone who loves to travel by train). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel
  - iso1631 6y ago
    That link shows that the train is the safest way to travel in the US, 6 times safer than by plane, and 26 times safer than car
goodcanadian 6y ago
The Chiltern hills are there. While I don't doubt there are political aspects to it, I strongly suspect there are practical aspects as well.

by buro9 6y ago

londons_explore 6y ago

It's about time we just did a big nationwide vote for big infrastructure projects. Voters can decide if they want to pay an extra few billion pounds or to keep a little farm village.

Already__Taken 6y ago
That's all very well and good until it's your village. And you know full well it's never the Lords and Lady's in this country at risk of their shooting grounds getting a train through it.
- arethuza 6y ago
  The massive viaducts at Cullen in Scotland were apparently required to route the railway away from Cullen House: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen,_Moray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cullen,_Moray
growlist 6y ago
These smaller countryside settlements are precious and wonderful to me. Our towns and especially cities are rapidly losing their individual character with the influence of globalised media, mass immigration and an increasingly commodified and vapid consumerist culture. Please don't will the destruction of the few small pockets of distinctively English heritage we have left.

DrBazza 6y ago

Presumably cost analysis has been done and the cost of buying land through compulsory purchase is far higher than tunnelling. Crazy, but true. HS1 only has 4 significant tunnels, St Pancras to Rainham, the Thames Tunnel, Bluebell Hill, and the approach into Ashford International. Some of the major costs was moving some houses out of the way (by using pistons), and moving and removing bridges. HS1 followed the Regents Canal out of London, the A2, and then M20 motorway through Kent. Looks like HS2 isn't following any significant roads.

lmm 6y ago
> Presumably cost analysis has been done and the cost of buying land through compulsory purchase is far higher than tunnelling. Crazy, but true. Nope. The tunnelling is uneconomic, but locals were able to ban the line from being built on the surface on the grounds that it's in a designated Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (a status that is disproportionately applied in the rich south of the country).
- iso1631 6y ago
  Rich landowners in the south get away with paying peanuts The property tax for a house in 16 acres of pristine AONB in Buckinghamshire, worth £8m [0], is £3806 a year -- 0.04% The property tax for a 2 bed terrace in Stoke-on-Trent for £65k [1] is £1107 -- 1.7%, 42 times higher. [0] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62169501.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-62169... [1] https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80532553.html https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-80532...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

growlist 6y ago

It's a shame we can't put the whole thing underground, though I suppose it would spoil the view for passengers! I've also wondered how expensive it would be to just build the whole thing on a flyover over the M1 for example - no doubt insanely expensive.

gsnedders 6y ago
> I've also wondered how expensive it would be to just build the whole thing on a flyover over the M1 for example - no doubt insanely expensive. Would be impossible to have an alignment suitable for 400km/h like that (and even if it were, difficult to build without disruption the M1 significantly).
- growlist 6y ago
  The alignment point goes without saying. As regards the disruption, have you tried driving anywhere recently? There's been huge disruption from conversion to smart motorways for years.

Gibbon1 6y ago

California High Speed rail got sued by wealthy land owners because they didn't want a rail tunnel under their play school 'horse ranches'

chris_va 6y ago
Citation? Anyone can file a lawsuit, doesn't mean it stuck ... Of course, why we'd want to pay $100B for a slower, more dangerous [1] way to travel around CA is beyond me (and I say that as someone who loves to travel by train). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort#Travel
- iso1631 6y ago
  That link shows that the train is the safest way to travel in the US, 6 times safer than by plane, and 26 times safer than car

goodcanadian 6y ago

The Chiltern hills are there. While I don't doubt there are political aspects to it, I strongly suspect there are practical aspects as well.