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> What are some examples of English words or phrases that are so loaded with cultural significance that they are difficult to translate? There's more than one

> What are some examples of English words or phrases that are so loaded with cultural significance that they are difficult to translate? There's more than one way to skin a cat. The whole nine yards. Also, there was a thread where a lot of foreigner CS students use english words because many of the words don't have direct translations or sensible translations - like mouse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23377270 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23377270

umvi 6y ago
I mean, those are idioms, but they can be easily translated. "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem"
- xionon 6y ago
  I don’t think that’s an accurate translation at all! Skinning a cat is not a common thing. It’s not a normal food for English speakers, so the phrase carries some sense that what you’re doing is unusual. It’s usually applied to a situation completely unrelated to skinning or otherwise preparing food, so it carries some sense of absurdity. Most people using the phrase have never skinned anything, so there’s (usually!) a sense of ignorance on both sides. Your translation brings none of that. If I were to translate that idiom back to English and aim for accuracy, it would be something like, “what you’re doing is unusual, and neither of us have experience doing it, and the way you’re doing it is different than the ways I have heard of, but I suppose there’s more than one valid way to do it.” Which, I think, fits the spirit of the other examples - a very short expression that carries tons of unspoken cultural context with it, to the point that there isn’t a direct translation.
  - jrek 6y ago
    The usage of the phrase is in no way contingent on the subject activity being unusual or a lack of experience for either party, your reading of it is far too literal.
  - sethammons 6y ago
    Fwiw I’ve never read that deep into it. I have mostly experienced it as a response to a failed attempt at something and a new approach is needed. Less so, it is used to acknowledge that a problem can have alternative solutions.
  - uberman 6y ago
    The translation is as described: "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem"
  - bigyikes 6y ago
    As a native English speaker, I personally never really thought about those implications you just described. I would use that phrase for any situation with multiple options, not just an unusual one. Maybe I’m using it wrong?
    - esperent 6y ago
      I don't think so. Whenever I've heard the phrase it literally means "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem" with no further connotations beyond a bit of absurdist humour.
    - zimpenfish 6y ago
      As also a native English speaker, I don't believe there's any implied unusuality in the "skinning a cat" phrase. It really is just "there's more than one way."
  - agurk 6y ago
    I've come across different etymologies for this phrase. The first referenced use I've seen is from 1840 American humorist Seba Smith in her short story The Money Diggers when she wrote: “As it is said, ‘There are more ways than one to skin a cat,’ so are there more ways than one of digging for money”.[0] This Economist article[1] posits that it is actually slang for sexual intercourse based on the phrase "skin the cat"[2] first recorded in 1837 being a euphemism for it. This interpretation would also fit with the above quote. The same article also points out that: 'And the rather violent act of skinning a cat is no easy thing, says John Youngaitis, a taxidermist in New York. “There is not more than one way to skin a cat.”' From[0] we can also see that in 1678 English naturalist John Ray said in his “Collection of English Proverbs”: “There are more ways to kill a dog than hanging”. So it seems it is possible that the contemporary phrase exists to change a less common activity for a more common one. In this case use of the idiom would not convey the sense of doing something unusual. [0] https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/article181298616.html https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/arti... [1] https://www.economist.com/prospero/2013/10/09/shooting-skinned-cats-in-a-barrel https://www.economist.com/prospero/2013/10/09/shooting-skinn... [2] https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/f3i7zgi https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/f3i7zgi
pseingatl 6y ago
Proverbs are a different cultural class: "the pot calling the kettle black" in Spanish (some countries): The rabbit calling the donkey 'big ears.'
- jaclaz 6y ago
  Only FYI, in Italian it is "Cencio dice male di straccio", vaguely translatable to "Mop speaking ill of rag". Many proverbs in different languages have a common meaning but a different way to "deliver" it, I always find amusing how a differnt language/culture gets to the same point with completely different means.

umvi 6y ago

I mean, those are idioms, but they can be easily translated. "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem"

xionon 6y ago
I don’t think that’s an accurate translation at all! Skinning a cat is not a common thing. It’s not a normal food for English speakers, so the phrase carries some sense that what you’re doing is unusual. It’s usually applied to a situation completely unrelated to skinning or otherwise preparing food, so it carries some sense of absurdity. Most people using the phrase have never skinned anything, so there’s (usually!) a sense of ignorance on both sides. Your translation brings none of that. If I were to translate that idiom back to English and aim for accuracy, it would be something like, “what you’re doing is unusual, and neither of us have experience doing it, and the way you’re doing it is different than the ways I have heard of, but I suppose there’s more than one valid way to do it.” Which, I think, fits the spirit of the other examples - a very short expression that carries tons of unspoken cultural context with it, to the point that there isn’t a direct translation.
- jrek 6y ago
  The usage of the phrase is in no way contingent on the subject activity being unusual or a lack of experience for either party, your reading of it is far too literal.
- sethammons 6y ago
  Fwiw I’ve never read that deep into it. I have mostly experienced it as a response to a failed attempt at something and a new approach is needed. Less so, it is used to acknowledge that a problem can have alternative solutions.
- uberman 6y ago
  The translation is as described: "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem"
- bigyikes 6y ago
  As a native English speaker, I personally never really thought about those implications you just described. I would use that phrase for any situation with multiple options, not just an unusual one. Maybe I’m using it wrong?
  - esperent 6y ago
    I don't think so. Whenever I've heard the phrase it literally means "There are multiple valid solutions for a given problem" with no further connotations beyond a bit of absurdist humour.
  - zimpenfish 6y ago
    As also a native English speaker, I don't believe there's any implied unusuality in the "skinning a cat" phrase. It really is just "there's more than one way."
- agurk 6y ago
  I've come across different etymologies for this phrase. The first referenced use I've seen is from 1840 American humorist Seba Smith in her short story The Money Diggers when she wrote: “As it is said, ‘There are more ways than one to skin a cat,’ so are there more ways than one of digging for money”.[0] This Economist article[1] posits that it is actually slang for sexual intercourse based on the phrase "skin the cat"[2] first recorded in 1837 being a euphemism for it. This interpretation would also fit with the above quote. The same article also points out that: 'And the rather violent act of skinning a cat is no easy thing, says John Youngaitis, a taxidermist in New York. “There is not more than one way to skin a cat.”' From[0] we can also see that in 1678 English naturalist John Ray said in his “Collection of English Proverbs”: “There are more ways to kill a dog than hanging”. So it seems it is possible that the contemporary phrase exists to change a less common activity for a more common one. In this case use of the idiom would not convey the sense of doing something unusual. [0] https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/article181298616.html https://www.bnd.com/living/liv-columns-blogs/answer-man/arti... [1] https://www.economist.com/prospero/2013/10/09/shooting-skinned-cats-in-a-barrel https://www.economist.com/prospero/2013/10/09/shooting-skinn... [2] https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/f3i7zgi https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/f3i7zgi

pseingatl 6y ago

Proverbs are a different cultural class: "the pot calling the kettle black" in Spanish (some countries): The rabbit calling the donkey 'big ears.'

jaclaz 6y ago
Only FYI, in Italian it is "Cencio dice male di straccio", vaguely translatable to "Mop speaking ill of rag". Many proverbs in different languages have a common meaning but a different way to "deliver" it, I always find amusing how a differnt language/culture gets to the same point with completely different means.