4 ms·

I've always had a pet theory that Judaism (and thus Christianity and Islam) had its roots in psilocybin mushrooms and cannabis, especially the book of Exodus. O

I've always had a pet theory that Judaism (and thus Christianity and Islam) had its roots in psilocybin mushrooms and cannabis, especially the book of Exodus. One of my Israeli friends always jokes that the story of Moses and the burning bush was actually about Moses smoking a joint, and if you imagine that Moses ate magic mushrooms when he walked up Mt Sinai, the story makes a lot more sense.

kylek 6y ago
There's some theories that the burning bush was an acacia tree, which could contain DMT. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush#Biblical_entheogen_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush#Biblical_entheoge... also https://www.rickstrassman.com/publications/dmt-and-the-soul-of-prophecy/ https://www.rickstrassman.com/publications/dmt-and-the-soul-...
banads 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_...
ta1234567890 6y ago
There are multiple books and research on the subject. For people that have had psychedelic experiences, the link between religion/spirituality and these experiences, as well as the practices that produce them, is undeniable. Here are some additional links besides the ones provided in sibling comments: https://psychedelictimes.com/amanita-muscaria-and-psilocybin-in-early-christian-art-interview-with-jerry-brown/ https://psychedelictimes.com/amanita-muscaria-and-psilocybin... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620555026/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1620555026&linkCode=as2&tag=psychedelgosp-20&linkId=H2PPURLYYF6WDE5L https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620555026/ref=as_li_tl?ie...
swayvil 6y ago
No doubt. Religion basically goes. 1. Take drugs and related stuff for fun or whatever 2. See something impressive 3. Cultivate your ability to use the drugs or whatever to investigate the impressive thing more closely. 4. Said cultivators impress the locals. 5. Locals document the whole thing. 6. Cultivators fall out of fashion, come into conflict with the local ruling class or for whatever reason disappear from public view. 7. But the documentation remains. Forming the seed of a new document-based culture. 8. Rulers of said culture forbid drugs and similar explorations. The scholars become a theological ruling class.
- xamuel 6y ago
  That comes off as kind of dismissive of religion, but if what you say is true, then what I'd like to know is, what sort of techniques were discovered in step (3)? I mean, if ancient priests discovered esoteric methods of getting more and more high, that... sounds... actually kind of awesome and I'd like to read about those methods!
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - swayvil 6y ago
    It's dismissive of our culture. A bunch of dreamers we are, living in stories. Religion. The real kind. Otoh. Kicks ass. Techniques : Psychedelics. Meditation. Breathing techniques. Controlled stress and pain. Fasting. Sleep deprivation. Theater. Sex. Off the top of my head. A google might reveal more.
    - xamuel 6y ago
      I'd be interested in continuing this conversation by email if you were interested. You can find my address in any of my papers (such as this one: https://philpapers.org/archive/ALEMSI.pdf https://philpapers.org/archive/ALEMSI.pdf)
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into religious flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - swayvil 6y ago
    Please don't dismiss strange conversations as flamewar. And definitely please don't censor them. It really inhibits our whole process of communication. I am actually elevating religion above the usual scienceist-attitude that is so common these days. Try to keep an open mind.
  - 6y ago
eindiran 6y ago
I don't think there is any evidence that psilocybin mushrooms were used in the Middle East until at least the mid 1950s when the Wassons brought them to Europe from Mexico and the Psychedelic era began. Further, there are no psilocybin containing mushrooms native to the Middle East: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Pschoactive_Psilocybe_distribution.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Pschoact... So the psilocybin mushroom part of your theory strikes me as very unlikely.
eli_gottlieb 6y ago
The Sinai region is much too dry to cultivate mushrooms, AFAIK.

kylek 6y ago

There's some theories that the burning bush was an acacia tree, which could contain DMT. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush#Biblical_entheogen_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush#Biblical_entheoge... also https://www.rickstrassman.com/publications/dmt-and-the-soul-of-prophecy/ https://www.rickstrassman.com/publications/dmt-and-the-soul-...

banads 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_Cross https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_...

ta1234567890 6y ago

There are multiple books and research on the subject. For people that have had psychedelic experiences, the link between religion/spirituality and these experiences, as well as the practices that produce them, is undeniable. Here are some additional links besides the ones provided in sibling comments: https://psychedelictimes.com/amanita-muscaria-and-psilocybin-in-early-christian-art-interview-with-jerry-brown/ https://psychedelictimes.com/amanita-muscaria-and-psilocybin... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620555026/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1620555026&linkCode=as2&tag=psychedelgosp-20&linkId=H2PPURLYYF6WDE5L https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620555026/ref=as_li_tl?ie...

swayvil 6y ago

No doubt. Religion basically goes. 1. Take drugs and related stuff for fun or whatever 2. See something impressive 3. Cultivate your ability to use the drugs or whatever to investigate the impressive thing more closely. 4. Said cultivators impress the locals. 5. Locals document the whole thing. 6. Cultivators fall out of fashion, come into conflict with the local ruling class or for whatever reason disappear from public view. 7. But the documentation remains. Forming the seed of a new document-based culture. 8. Rulers of said culture forbid drugs and similar explorations. The scholars become a theological ruling class.

xamuel 6y ago
That comes off as kind of dismissive of religion, but if what you say is true, then what I'd like to know is, what sort of techniques were discovered in step (3)? I mean, if ancient priests discovered esoteric methods of getting more and more high, that... sounds... actually kind of awesome and I'd like to read about those methods!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- swayvil 6y ago
  It's dismissive of our culture. A bunch of dreamers we are, living in stories. Religion. The real kind. Otoh. Kicks ass. Techniques : Psychedelics. Meditation. Breathing techniques. Controlled stress and pain. Fasting. Sleep deprivation. Theater. Sex. Off the top of my head. A google might reveal more.
  - xamuel 6y ago
    I'd be interested in continuing this conversation by email if you were interested. You can find my address in any of my papers (such as this one: https://philpapers.org/archive/ALEMSI.pdf https://philpapers.org/archive/ALEMSI.pdf)
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into religious flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- swayvil 6y ago
  Please don't dismiss strange conversations as flamewar. And definitely please don't censor them. It really inhibits our whole process of communication. I am actually elevating religion above the usual scienceist-attitude that is so common these days. Try to keep an open mind.
- 6y ago

eindiran 6y ago

I don't think there is any evidence that psilocybin mushrooms were used in the Middle East until at least the mid 1950s when the Wassons brought them to Europe from Mexico and the Psychedelic era began. Further, there are no psilocybin containing mushrooms native to the Middle East: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Pschoactive_Psilocybe_distribution.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Pschoact... So the psilocybin mushroom part of your theory strikes me as very unlikely.

eli_gottlieb 6y ago

The Sinai region is much too dry to cultivate mushrooms, AFAIK.