5 ms·

So easy to be "reasonable" when life is good.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> So easy to be "reasonable" when life is good This is a good point. Most protest is about priority. It isn't going to change many peoples' minds. But it will make them prioritize thinking and talking about, and maybe even voting for, your issue. Michelangelo said "the sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.” Effective protest is similar. It isn't about creating a new view. It's about uncovering, and refining, instincts that were already there. As such, a core part of effective protest is problem projection. That is, forcing people who don't have a problem to empathize with those who do. Protest should target those who have it good. To get them to empathize with those who don't. (Community organizing is about getting people who share a problem to prioritize it together.)
- demadog 6y ago
  To be honest, the protests have actually opened up my view and forced me to think deeply and project myself as being in the same situation as many minorities. So yea, you’re right on the money here imho.
marcinzm 6y ago
Fact is, the majority of people are generally happy with their life, attacking those people and their life just makes them hate you and support whomever is trying to stop you. I don't see why that is unreasonable or unexpected.
- av_engr 6y ago
  Agree on this. Ive seen social media post portraits the message in the lines of "if you don't support us, then you are part of them". I believe this is a bad tactics to gain support in a movement. Excluding people will only lose support, instead they should've pushed for more social media post on explaining in an objective way why police brutality and racism exist, and how it will impact us (not only African American but POC as well as innocent civilians).
  - demadog 6y ago
    Yea my first thought is the absolutist slogans and chants can turn away those in the middle. I’d rather see facts and have smart people plan and debate. On the other token, as in politics, it’s the one liners that get spread far and wide and affect more people (positive or negatively). Obama said it best that the protests essentially make the issues front and center and in everyone’s mind, but the rubber hits the road only when electing local officials that can make permanent changes.
    - jddj 6y ago
      I agree with your second point. American federal politicians and political organizations seem to care less and less about the middle. Change happens at the edges, and sadly people deal more and more in extremes + absolutes. There's not much room for nuance.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    >I believe this is a bad tactics to gain support in a movement. That depends on the size of the movement. "Support us or lose all your friends" is a valid tactic that has been successfully used since long before written history. Requiring members to perform an action (unfriend people, post harsh messages, etc.) also induces deeper commitment (psychologically and materially) then merely someone saying they support a movement.
- bakuninsbart 6y ago
  If you are happy in a country built on the sweat and blood of enslaved people, and then simply not willing to listen to their suffering, you are an aweful human being.
  - marcinzm 6y ago
    I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth or throw insults at me. I'm merely pointing out that violent rioters will elicit negative responses from people who don't want society to burn down and those who stop said rioters will elicit positive responses.
  - nec4b 6y ago
    TIL that there are still enslaved people who suffer in your country.
  - david38 6y ago
    There is no faster to alienate people and get yourself off with smug superiority than to comment like this. We can go down the path of how much has been built by slaves, what you mean by enslaved, and how I am somehow responsible for that, especially as an immigrant from a country torn apart by American imperialism. You are not the judge of what is an aweful human being, seriously, you’re just not that free of sin or amazing. In your smugness you no doubt increase the wealth of other such “aweful human beings” by working for them, paying them for goods, paying taxes, etc. This attitude is tiring and counter productive.
pnako 6y ago
Indeed. Welcome to politics.

> So easy to be "reasonable" when life is good This is a good point. Most protest is about priority. It isn't going to change many peoples' minds. But it will make them prioritize thinking and talking about, and maybe even voting for, your issue. Michelangelo said "the sculpture is already complete within the marble block, before I start my work. It is already there, I just have to chisel away the superfluous material.” Effective protest is similar. It isn't about creating a new view. It's about uncovering, and refining, instincts that were already there. As such, a core part of effective protest is problem projection. That is, forcing people who don't have a problem to empathize with those who do. Protest should target those who have it good. To get them to empathize with those who don't. (Community organizing is about getting people who share a problem to prioritize it together.)

demadog 6y ago
To be honest, the protests have actually opened up my view and forced me to think deeply and project myself as being in the same situation as many minorities. So yea, you’re right on the money here imho.

marcinzm 6y ago

Fact is, the majority of people are generally happy with their life, attacking those people and their life just makes them hate you and support whomever is trying to stop you. I don't see why that is unreasonable or unexpected.

av_engr 6y ago
Agree on this. Ive seen social media post portraits the message in the lines of "if you don't support us, then you are part of them". I believe this is a bad tactics to gain support in a movement. Excluding people will only lose support, instead they should've pushed for more social media post on explaining in an objective way why police brutality and racism exist, and how it will impact us (not only African American but POC as well as innocent civilians).
- demadog 6y ago
  Yea my first thought is the absolutist slogans and chants can turn away those in the middle. I’d rather see facts and have smart people plan and debate. On the other token, as in politics, it’s the one liners that get spread far and wide and affect more people (positive or negatively). Obama said it best that the protests essentially make the issues front and center and in everyone’s mind, but the rubber hits the road only when electing local officials that can make permanent changes.
  - jddj 6y ago
    I agree with your second point. American federal politicians and political organizations seem to care less and less about the middle. Change happens at the edges, and sadly people deal more and more in extremes + absolutes. There's not much room for nuance.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  >I believe this is a bad tactics to gain support in a movement. That depends on the size of the movement. "Support us or lose all your friends" is a valid tactic that has been successfully used since long before written history. Requiring members to perform an action (unfriend people, post harsh messages, etc.) also induces deeper commitment (psychologically and materially) then merely someone saying they support a movement.
bakuninsbart 6y ago
If you are happy in a country built on the sweat and blood of enslaved people, and then simply not willing to listen to their suffering, you are an aweful human being.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth or throw insults at me. I'm merely pointing out that violent rioters will elicit negative responses from people who don't want society to burn down and those who stop said rioters will elicit positive responses.
- nec4b 6y ago
  TIL that there are still enslaved people who suffer in your country.
- david38 6y ago
  There is no faster to alienate people and get yourself off with smug superiority than to comment like this. We can go down the path of how much has been built by slaves, what you mean by enslaved, and how I am somehow responsible for that, especially as an immigrant from a country torn apart by American imperialism. You are not the judge of what is an aweful human being, seriously, you’re just not that free of sin or amazing. In your smugness you no doubt increase the wealth of other such “aweful human beings” by working for them, paying them for goods, paying taxes, etc. This attitude is tiring and counter productive.

pnako 6y ago

Indeed. Welcome to politics.