6 ms·

Can someone explain to me what's in this for Apple? Surely the money that they get from forcing people to go the authorized way isn't that significant to their

• helldritch 6y ago
  Because they don't want devices to be repaired, they want devices to become obsolete or irreparable within 5 years so that consumers can buy a new device.
  • threeseed 6y ago
    I don't think this is true at all. In the mobile space Apple is transitioning to a services and ecosystem business as the space commodifies. You buy an iPhone and then get Apple Music, TV+, News+, AirPod, Watch, Glass etc. If you look at the Android OEMs they don't even support phones after 2 years. And Apple would likely increase upgrade support for more than 5 years if those phones weren't massively underpowered.
    • effie 6y ago
      You've got a point about Android manufacturers not bothering with supporting their models for long. At the same time, Apple does make it complicated to do cheap repairs. Why would that be... they have to keep the brand status... and also new units to sell, just as Android manufacturers do.
  • hosteur 6y ago
    This. And also to intimidate other repair shops. Plus a case like this sets a legal precedent. Btw. If I by a car from, say, Toyota and go to a shop to have it repaired. Of course the dealer may use off brand parts to repair it.
  • encom 6y ago
    Bingo. Also note how Apple pretends to care about their environmental impact, while being actively hostile towards repair efforts, that would reduce the amount of e-waste generated. Absolute hypocrites.
  • supernova87a 6y ago
    Really? They do this just to work at cross-purposes to their other teams which spend time and money to maintain software updates for older phones, 4-5 years longer than competitors do? How do you explain that one?
    • effie 6y ago
      Why not? It is a big company, with different teams having somewhat different priorities. It is perfectly reasonable for the upper management to leave the tech department supporting the devices for a long time, and thus maintain and increase the brand value, while keep the anti-consumer anti-environment business policies regarding repair. They can brag about how the Apple devices are great and long lived, and sell lots of new units/repairs every cycle. It makes perfect sense.
  • Delk 6y ago
    I'm not an Apple apologist by any measure, but I don't think that's really true. At least last time I looked into it, Apple supported their devices with software updates for longer than the majority of other vendors in the market (for the majority of their devices at least). Of course Apple is a company that likes to keep a tight control of their market and their image, and you could maybe say they go to the point of control freakiness in that regard. Any potential loss in image regarding the quality of their products is a significant cost to them; being able to charge a premium for replacement parts probably doesn't hurt either. If independent repair shops and consumers lose something in repair costs and freedom, that probably doesn't tip Apple's scale in any way. For the rest of the society it could, and if needed, Apple (or any company) needs to be able to be criticized for that, and legislation needs to cater to that and not to the needs of any single corporation. Edit: It might be worth pointing out that while yes, Apple would probably like you to buy a new phone within five years, e.g. many Android devices aren't supported for more than a couple of years. I agree you shouldn't necessarily be forced to buy a new device even every five years, but most other vendors aren't any better in that regard.
    • ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      >Apple supported their devices with software updates for longer than the majority of other vendors The situation is exactly the opposite when it comes to computers/laptops. I can still have latest version of Windows on my father's 2011 laptop. Secondly, this whole 'loss is image' is a giant smoke screen. Consider that you can repair a BMW in a random garage with unauthorised parts and incompetent repairmen - and you might even die as a result. Does BMW's image suffer? Is their brand worth nothing? The consumer can comprehend the consequences of repairing his device where he chooses, this is not medical equipment. Using copyright to restrict repairs is a bastardisation of copyright law - it's intended purpose is wholly different.
      • Delk 6y ago
        I didn't say I agree with preventing unauthorized repairs. I don't, and my comment wasn't meant as apologetics. I was merely speculating on why it might make sense for Apple to want that kind of control even if it isn't in the best interests of anybody else. The costs to everybody else just have no weight to them, as long as their customers keep paying, and thus even a small potential matter of image could weigh more to them. That doesn't mean you, me or anybody else should support that line of though. BMW might not mind having that kind of control either if their customers and the legislation were to put up with it. Your point about computers is valid.
• 4636760295 6y ago
  They probably have an army of staff attorneys who have nothing better to do.
  • threeseed 6y ago
    Apple gets sued all the time for patent infringement so I doubt this is true.
    • 4636760295 6y ago
      They send their interns into those cases.
• est31 6y ago
  > Surely the money that they get from forcing people to go the authorized way isn't that significant to their bottom line? In the car business, a large part of the profit that a manufacturer makes is actually made after the car is sold, in the form of replacement parts. Basically, by buying a car you enter into a relationship with the manufacturer to buy replacement parts for your car. Some are being manufactured independently, but many aren't available. I guess it's similar in the case of phones.
  • npunt 6y ago
    This is almost nothing like the very low margin auto business. Apple makes ~35-40% margins on the devices at time of sale, and make additional profits on services. Repairs are barely profitable IIRC.
    • est31 6y ago
      What if they want to change that and make massive profits on repairs as well? You can't do that if you have competitors undercutting you. Once they are gone you can charge what you want.
      • npunt 6y ago
        It's in Apple's best interest to maintain high customer satisfaction, because that's how they get repeat business. This question is in the same vein as hypothetical questions like 'what prevents Apple from violating people's privacy to sell/use their data'. The answer is always the same: pick a business model that aligns customer and company interests, and these things won't happen. Apple thinks in long term customer relationships measured in customer lifetime value, which can be 10s of thousands of dollars over decades of customer relationship. To sacrifice that for a few extra bucks on screen repair would be really dumb.
        • ClumsyPilot 6y ago
          > 10s of thousands of dollars over decades of customer relationship. To sacrifice that for a few extra bucks on screen repair would be really dumb. Have we never seen management prioritise short term gains and next quarterly report over long term profits? Think of 2008 and the Boeing disasters. Almost everyone involved knew that this will blow up one day, and yet they kept going.
• ssivark 6y ago
  The broader effect of aggressively controlling such third-party interactions is to lock-in users, and convert what one would normally think of as a “product” into something more like a “service” — which then gives the company much more power with pricing, market segmentation, etc. (including Apple care/warranties, value of returns or refurbished devices, upgrade cycle of devices, etc). Functionally, yet another way of exerting monopolistic effects. This strategy applies beyond this particular example, and is probably one of the strong business motivations for Apple’s vertical integration. Business-wise, this is yet another way to boost the “lifetime value” of a customer and ensure it is far more than the price of a single product, which I’m sure is a significant factor in the high valuations (and revenues) of Apple. The fact that they invest so much into marketing/advertising the Apple ecosystem as a lifestyle brand also means that they are pushed towards a business model where their customers need to have a large lifetime value to offset the customer acquisition/retention costs.
• JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > it's not like they risk impacting their quality reputation either since the repair shops don't advertise that they provide genuine Apple part If the end consumer winds up confused, it still hurts Apple. That is the matter of this case. The repair shop didn’t make it clear enough that these are not genuine parts.
  • ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    How did you conclude it's not clear enough? Is there any actual person under impression that when they get their phone fixed for $50 it's using original parts in mint new condition? Because if such people exist, I've never met them.
• fearface 6y ago
  It’s not about money, but about ensuring that the repair shops have up to date information and tools to execute the repairs and that they’re delivering a decent quality. Without the certification you won’t get access to the special tools and diagnose software.
  • encom 6y ago
    These special tools and software only exist in the first place to hamper 3rd party repair efforts.
• floatingatoll 6y ago
  Third-party repair shops working with screens and touchID/faceID sensors have an opportunity to install surveillance hardware inside iPhones that could be used by organized crime and governments to commit harm upon citizens. Denying official parts for these security-critical components to uncertified vendors would protect users from these “evil maid” threat vectors, as the certification can be used to enforce compliance with strict auditing and process controls designed to minimize the threat of harm to users.
  • saagarjha 6y ago
    An even simpler and more common case is a third-party using a shoddy part that fails later.
    • encom 6y ago
      Yes, but that's the customers choice to make.
      • saagarjha 6y ago
        As far as I understand it, Apple prefers that they not show up in the news as "iPhone EXPLODES" because the part where it says the customer bought some cheap third-party replacement is going to be buried ten lines into the article.
        • hansvm 6y ago
          If their problem is with reporters then taking out independent repair shops is a lot of collateral damage on the way to preventing things Apple actually cares about.
          • saagarjha 6y ago
            Apple cares about how their brand is perceived. Similarly, I doubt there are people at Apple who cackle maniacally when they lock down their operating systems; these are just a result of trying to protect their image at the expense of user freedom.
• supernova87a 6y ago
  Contrary to the inflated anti-competitive suspicions by others below (or that "Apple has an army of staff attorneys with nothing better to do"), there are pretty legit reasons for Apple to object. If you've ever looked at buying a used or refurbished phone, it's a total wild west out there with people claiming (or being purposefully deceiving) that the phones are refurbed to the quality of Apple or similar. Or you find out after buying that you end up getting a poor quality uneven brightness display from prior-generation China factories, microphones that don't work right, etc. The guy in the story was importing counterfeit parts. Apple (and other manufacturers) have a big interest to not have people feel that their hardware is shitty. And if Apple were really trying to make people's technology obsolete, why would they support the OS of legacy phones for multiple (4-5) years longer than most other phone manufacturers? I guess they're so evil they're trying to confuse us with good cop/bad cop. Inject some reality into your thinking.
  • syshum 6y ago
    If apple (and other manufacturers) did not want to make people technology obsolete they would support right to repair, provide open access to parts and schematics, and allow independent repair shops to do board level repairs with out threat of lawsuit They created the environment where counterfeits and shady dealers are required by prohibiting any official ways to repair things So I do not have any sympathy for your argument. The day I can go to apple.com to buy a capacitor and order a schematic is the day I will agree with you
    • thoraway1010 6y ago
      Apple's products have FAR higher resale and expected life than almost any competitors. Your insistence that folks buy trash phones that get thrown away (and are totally unsupported software side almost from date of mfg) is ridiculous and actively harms the environment. By increasing confidence in their products, including used products, apple does a LOT to enhance the perceived long term value of their product. There is a very active apple refurb market, and you can take your phone and get new batteries etc from apple. They have a huge retail presence with walk in repairs. They have authorized third party repairs. And they have mail in repairs.
• AlphaSite 6y ago
  I think issue is that a large % of these parts are sourced from stolen phones, since they can't be resold once reported stolen.
• npunt 6y ago
  It's extremely straightforward: Apple is in the user experience business. People buy Apple products because they 'just work'. That reputation is worth hundreds of billions of dollars because most people have frustrating experiences with tech. Unreliable devices damage Apple's hard-earned reputation. An end user won't know why the Apple device they're holding is unreliable - they may not even know it has been repaired if they acquired it from someone else. They'll just know it's an Apple device, and thus it must be Apple's fault. When that person talks to someone a day or a month down the line about their experience, they will not have as good things to say. In sum, this reputation will depress sales and customer satisfaction, which are the two key metrics for how Apple measures success. Building reliable tech that just works is hard enough. Non-OEM components and third party repair shops add additional business risk, which is why Apple takes a pretty restrictive stance.
  • Krasnol 6y ago
    > Unreliable devices damage Apple's hard-earned reputation. This is hilarious as the only Apple related Videos I know of are those of this repair guy who cheaply fixes parts that were obviously made to break and be repaired at ridiculous costs pushing the customer to buy a new device. Nobody who goes to a private fix it shop would blame Apple. But they might hear about those strange parts that were build to break and this is where they may indeed lose reputation. Reputation they do not deserve in the first place.