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The curfews in our area were put in place by elected officials as the violence was out of control at night. This was not a police action. The Constitution prov

The curfews in our area were put in place by elected officials as the violence was out of control at night. This was not a police action. The Constitution provides a right to peaceful assembly. It does not provide a right to violence and looting. During the day people who wanted were and are generally able to march and peacefully express their views.

trixie_ 6y ago
The violence was not out of control last night. Case in point the video above showing hundreds of police officers surrounding peaceful protesters. I am offended by the massive waste of resources. Case in point news helicopters not filming looting (as they would rather do) . The only thing left to film that night was the true protest. Made so so clear in the video above. The abuse of power if you can't see it you're blind. This proves the curfew was ordered under false pretenses. And demonstrates a complete lack of judgement and common sense by law enforcement.
- strbean 6y ago
  I mean, I'm very much in support of the protestors, but... They can't exactly institute a curfew after things get out of control. And they have gotten out of control across the country in the previous nights.
- kyleee 6y ago
  No doubt there were a lot of good faith / peaceful protests that were shut down and hindered, but there has also been a lot of looting. Here are couple good long form videos showing some of the looting in and around Santa Monica on a couple of the days: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=vr3LrRUfJsY https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=vr3LrRUfJsY https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=PbxTqyW8yI0 https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=PbxTqyW8yI0
  - basch 6y ago
    You don't just get to ban good behavior to stop bad behavior. The presence of illegal looting does not take away constitutional rights. If it did, the government would have incentive to incite riots and looting to force the breakup of peaceful protest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny
    - kyleee 6y ago
      I agree to a point, but I do think depending on the scale of the lawlessness that temporary measures such as a curfew can be reasonable in order to avoid large scale destruction and violence
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  Perhaps the violence was not out of control because the police were better enabled by the curfew in previous days and apprehended/scared off most of the troublemakers? The rioters and looters proved the curfew was necessary. The video seems like it is proof the police are more than willing to treat people with respect if they themselves are not being violent or enabling of those who are being violent.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  In Chicago, they were looting. They were burning things. They set over 80 fires and killed 20 people over the weekend. Not a single one of those fatalities was caused by a police officer. No one wants the world you're asking for: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/war-is-hell/ https://battlepenguin.com/politics/war-is-hell/
morelisp 6y ago
> It does not provide a right to violence and looting Buddy, what do you think the revolutionary war was?
- zaroth 6y ago
  Is your suggestion that the rioters and looters (and I make a strong distinction here between those people and peaceful protesters) are in fact an attempted insurrection and should be responded to as such?
  - morelisp 6y ago
    I'm saying the fact one is looting does not a priori mean one is not making an effective, coherent, justified political argument. Wealth distribution is political. Property is political.
    - toasterlovin 6y ago
      FWIW, arguments like this come across as a craven justification that is motivated by pure partisanship. We've all seen the videos. Trying to justify looting only undermines the defense of peaceful protest.
      - basch 6y ago
        At what point is looting the response to wealth inequality. Does looting ever become justified when the feedback loop of lobbying, plutocracy, and tax code get out of control? Looters, rioters, and arsonists would have a stronger arguments if their attacks were targeted, and not against small businesses and local grocery stores. Vandalizing Gucci and Dior sends a very different message than destroying single location restaurants. Comparisons of this to the Boston Tea Party omit that it was an extremely targeted attack that allegedly self policed against collateral damage to other businesses. "The People should never rise, without doing something to be remembered—something notable And striking." - John Adams
      - morelisp 6y ago
basch 6y ago
>The Constitution provides a right to peaceful assembly. It does not provide a right to violence and looting. Looting and violence are already illegal. Catching the peaceful right to assembly, and arresting otherwise law abiding citizens, as collateral damage does not make those people trust the system more, who were already civilly disobeying the curfew order. Someone will fight the citation on constitutional grounds. Did the ends justify the means? Could the police and national guard handle looting and rioting without curfew? If peaceful protesters are out at night causing cover and distraction for looting and rioting, is the only answer curfew?

trixie_ 6y ago

The violence was not out of control last night. Case in point the video above showing hundreds of police officers surrounding peaceful protesters. I am offended by the massive waste of resources. Case in point news helicopters not filming looting (as they would rather do) . The only thing left to film that night was the true protest. Made so so clear in the video above. The abuse of power if you can't see it you're blind. This proves the curfew was ordered under false pretenses. And demonstrates a complete lack of judgement and common sense by law enforcement.

strbean 6y ago
I mean, I'm very much in support of the protestors, but... They can't exactly institute a curfew after things get out of control. And they have gotten out of control across the country in the previous nights.
kyleee 6y ago
No doubt there were a lot of good faith / peaceful protests that were shut down and hindered, but there has also been a lot of looting. Here are couple good long form videos showing some of the looting in and around Santa Monica on a couple of the days: https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=vr3LrRUfJsY https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=vr3LrRUfJsY https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=PbxTqyW8yI0 https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=PbxTqyW8yI0
- basch 6y ago
  You don't just get to ban good behavior to stop bad behavior. The presence of illegal looting does not take away constitutional rights. If it did, the government would have incentive to incite riots and looting to force the breakup of peaceful protest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny
  - kyleee 6y ago
    I agree to a point, but I do think depending on the scale of the lawlessness that temporary measures such as a curfew can be reasonable in order to avoid large scale destruction and violence
meragrin_ 6y ago
Perhaps the violence was not out of control because the police were better enabled by the curfew in previous days and apprehended/scared off most of the troublemakers? The rioters and looters proved the curfew was necessary. The video seems like it is proof the police are more than willing to treat people with respect if they themselves are not being violent or enabling of those who are being violent.
djsumdog 6y ago
In Chicago, they were looting. They were burning things. They set over 80 fires and killed 20 people over the weekend. Not a single one of those fatalities was caused by a police officer. No one wants the world you're asking for: https://battlepenguin.com/politics/war-is-hell/ https://battlepenguin.com/politics/war-is-hell/

morelisp 6y ago

> It does not provide a right to violence and looting Buddy, what do you think the revolutionary war was?

zaroth 6y ago
Is your suggestion that the rioters and looters (and I make a strong distinction here between those people and peaceful protesters) are in fact an attempted insurrection and should be responded to as such?
- morelisp 6y ago
  I'm saying the fact one is looting does not a priori mean one is not making an effective, coherent, justified political argument. Wealth distribution is political. Property is political.
  - toasterlovin 6y ago
    FWIW, arguments like this come across as a craven justification that is motivated by pure partisanship. We've all seen the videos. Trying to justify looting only undermines the defense of peaceful protest.
    - basch 6y ago
      At what point is looting the response to wealth inequality. Does looting ever become justified when the feedback loop of lobbying, plutocracy, and tax code get out of control? Looters, rioters, and arsonists would have a stronger arguments if their attacks were targeted, and not against small businesses and local grocery stores. Vandalizing Gucci and Dior sends a very different message than destroying single location restaurants. Comparisons of this to the Boston Tea Party omit that it was an extremely targeted attack that allegedly self policed against collateral damage to other businesses. "The People should never rise, without doing something to be remembered—something notable And striking." - John Adams
    - morelisp 6y ago

basch 6y ago

>The Constitution provides a right to peaceful assembly. It does not provide a right to violence and looting. Looting and violence are already illegal. Catching the peaceful right to assembly, and arresting otherwise law abiding citizens, as collateral damage does not make those people trust the system more, who were already civilly disobeying the curfew order. Someone will fight the citation on constitutional grounds. Did the ends justify the means? Could the police and national guard handle looting and rioting without curfew? If peaceful protesters are out at night causing cover and distraction for looting and rioting, is the only answer curfew?