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The police do not need billions of dollars. Defunding the police is a great idea. There are many more effective ways to spend this money. Police are used as a (

The police do not need billions of dollars. Defunding the police is a great idea. There are many more effective ways to spend this money. Police are used as a (poor) bandage for issues that stem from lack of funding in other areas, like healthcare, social work and housing.

bzb3 6y ago
And handouts. Basically bribe the troublemakers so the police is not necessary. Clever.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Spooky23 6y ago
The streams of dollars are from different sources. Defunding local police is easy, but there is no way to meaningfully take that money and meaningfully apply it to social purposes.
graeme 6y ago
I think part of the confusion stems from the choice of word. This is the definition of defund from the Oxford English Dictionary: "prevent from continuing to receive funds" It doesn't mean "Reduce funding down to a much smaller level in order to ensure the police fulfil only essential functions, while raising health, social and housing spending" I'm not sure which word would be a better choice, maybe there is none. But the literal meaning of defund suggests the proposal is to eliminate the police.
- garmaine 6y ago
  Decrease funding. Reduce budget.
  - graeme 6y ago
    That may be what the campaigners mean, but that's not what the word "defund" means. So it makes the campaign sound like something it isn't. This isn't some radical new definition. Beyond the dictionary, here's American political precedent. The Republicans attempted to eliminate funding for Obamacare by "defunding" it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Appropriations_Resolution,_2014#Defunding_Obamacare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Appropriations_Reso...
    - garmaine 6y ago
      I know. You said you didn’t know an alternative phrasing. I gave you two.
      - graeme 6y ago
        Oh gotcha. Those are too long I think. “Decrease the funding of the police” isn’t nearly as catchy “defund the police” I think you’d really need one word.
km3r 6y ago
Is there any evidence defunding the police will make the community safer? Is there a particular part of the police budget that should be cut?
Romanulus 6y ago
So what you're implying is that if everyone had everything they needed (perhaps prescribed by someone else), then we would need little or no policing? No cuts, no bandage! This reminds me of the movie "The Invention of Lying" where everyone was truly honest until someone decided they could get away with whatever they wanted.
dominotw 6y ago
> Defunding the police is a great idea. People saying this live in secure, peaceful suburbs( obviously).
- FemmeAndroid 6y ago
  Or have been systematically harassed in cities.
- marcinzm 6y ago
  Or aren't white and thus are more likely to be shot than helped by the police no matter how crime ridden their neighborhood.
  - dominotw 6y ago
    do you any stats for this by any chance? https://time.com/5818553/gun-violence-chicago-coronavirus/ https://time.com/5818553/gun-violence-chicago-coronavirus/ how would slashing funding for police help. I don't follow this chain of logic at all. People here in south side chicago die of gun violence not of police harassment. General concensus here has been that city doesn't have enough budget to grapple with gun violence that kills thousands of people here. Now all of sudden its that they have too much budget. How can both be true.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      And this past weekend led to over 80 shootings and 20 fatalities ... ZERO of which were from police.
    - uoaei 6y ago
      We can't keep having this same conversation over and over again. History exists, and it's incumbent on you to take the time to seek it out instead of asking others to do the work for you. Re-litigating the premise makes you look uninformed.
      - dominotw 6y ago
space_fountain 6y ago
You say that, but could you provide citations. Like I can provide a narrative claiming the real problem is not enough funding. Police need to be paid better so we can attract better police who will take their duties and responsibilities seriously. Some small evidence is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen.... We seem to be in the middle of the pack of developed democracies Certainly the extreme version of this can't be true. We need a police force of some kind.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  Police are paid well, especially if you count benefits, OT pay and pensions. Their jobs and benefits are also protected by very strong unions. If you compare police pay with the typical pay for important public servants like firefighters or teachers, you'll find police are doing just fine. See https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Po... for some loose numbers, you can find similar numbers in many other places. "Several cities in California have average police officer salaries above $100,000, including the highest in the San Jose area" It's possible paying "more" would improve the quality of police officers but how much more do we need to pay for them to stop shooting people in the eye with less-lethal rounds that aren't meant to be fired directly at people or from ranges less than 10m? Police budgets keep going up and somehow the violence hasn't stopped. What's the price threshold that fixes it? LAPD was looking at another big boost to funding this year after multiple funding increases over the last decade.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    I knew a cop work worked his whole life in my home town in Tennessee and his ending salary was $38k/year. My 2nd software job was $40k/yr when I was 23. In Seattle, I was cycling to a friend's house. I didn't remember exactly where he lived, but I got half way there, pulled out my phone and ... the charging cable had not been in right. It died. I asked a guy at a 7/11 if I could borrow his charging cable for 2 min. He asked where my friends where, and then told me to put my bike in his truck and he'd give me a ride. Dude was a Seattle Police Captain. Normal guy. Talked about how he shouldn't have bought a house; too much work and it was a money sink. He pointed it out to me on my way to my friend's. Just a little side unit. My friend, who is a Defence Attorney, said, "You're not suppose to start off the weekend in a cop car." I didn't! It was his personal truck! .. also my friend was super surprised he lived in Seattle; probably cause he had lived there a long time. Most Seattle cops cannot afford to live anywhere near the city or the districts they patrol. I am a minority, if that matters.

bzb3 6y ago

And handouts. Basically bribe the troublemakers so the police is not necessary. Clever.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

Spooky23 6y ago

The streams of dollars are from different sources. Defunding local police is easy, but there is no way to meaningfully take that money and meaningfully apply it to social purposes.

graeme 6y ago

I think part of the confusion stems from the choice of word. This is the definition of defund from the Oxford English Dictionary: "prevent from continuing to receive funds" It doesn't mean "Reduce funding down to a much smaller level in order to ensure the police fulfil only essential functions, while raising health, social and housing spending" I'm not sure which word would be a better choice, maybe there is none. But the literal meaning of defund suggests the proposal is to eliminate the police.

garmaine 6y ago
Decrease funding. Reduce budget.
- graeme 6y ago
  That may be what the campaigners mean, but that's not what the word "defund" means. So it makes the campaign sound like something it isn't. This isn't some radical new definition. Beyond the dictionary, here's American political precedent. The Republicans attempted to eliminate funding for Obamacare by "defunding" it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Appropriations_Resolution,_2014#Defunding_Obamacare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Appropriations_Reso...
  - garmaine 6y ago
    I know. You said you didn’t know an alternative phrasing. I gave you two.
    - graeme 6y ago
      Oh gotcha. Those are too long I think. “Decrease the funding of the police” isn’t nearly as catchy “defund the police” I think you’d really need one word.

km3r 6y ago

Is there any evidence defunding the police will make the community safer? Is there a particular part of the police budget that should be cut?

Romanulus 6y ago

So what you're implying is that if everyone had everything they needed (perhaps prescribed by someone else), then we would need little or no policing? No cuts, no bandage! This reminds me of the movie "The Invention of Lying" where everyone was truly honest until someone decided they could get away with whatever they wanted.

dominotw 6y ago

> Defunding the police is a great idea. People saying this live in secure, peaceful suburbs( obviously).

FemmeAndroid 6y ago
Or have been systematically harassed in cities.
marcinzm 6y ago
Or aren't white and thus are more likely to be shot than helped by the police no matter how crime ridden their neighborhood.
- dominotw 6y ago
  do you any stats for this by any chance? https://time.com/5818553/gun-violence-chicago-coronavirus/ https://time.com/5818553/gun-violence-chicago-coronavirus/ how would slashing funding for police help. I don't follow this chain of logic at all. People here in south side chicago die of gun violence not of police harassment. General concensus here has been that city doesn't have enough budget to grapple with gun violence that kills thousands of people here. Now all of sudden its that they have too much budget. How can both be true.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    And this past weekend led to over 80 shootings and 20 fatalities ... ZERO of which were from police.
  - uoaei 6y ago
    We can't keep having this same conversation over and over again. History exists, and it's incumbent on you to take the time to seek it out instead of asking others to do the work for you. Re-litigating the premise makes you look uninformed.
    - dominotw 6y ago

space_fountain 6y ago

You say that, but could you provide citations. Like I can provide a narrative claiming the real problem is not enough funding. Police need to be paid better so we can attract better police who will take their duties and responsibilities seriously. Some small evidence is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen.... We seem to be in the middle of the pack of developed democracies Certainly the extreme version of this can't be true. We need a police force of some kind.

kevingadd 6y ago
Police are paid well, especially if you count benefits, OT pay and pensions. Their jobs and benefits are also protected by very strong unions. If you compare police pay with the typical pay for important public servants like firefighters or teachers, you'll find police are doing just fine. See https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Police-Officer-Salary-by-State https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/What-Is-the-Average-Po... for some loose numbers, you can find similar numbers in many other places. "Several cities in California have average police officer salaries above $100,000, including the highest in the San Jose area" It's possible paying "more" would improve the quality of police officers but how much more do we need to pay for them to stop shooting people in the eye with less-lethal rounds that aren't meant to be fired directly at people or from ranges less than 10m? Police budgets keep going up and somehow the violence hasn't stopped. What's the price threshold that fixes it? LAPD was looking at another big boost to funding this year after multiple funding increases over the last decade.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  I knew a cop work worked his whole life in my home town in Tennessee and his ending salary was $38k/year. My 2nd software job was $40k/yr when I was 23. In Seattle, I was cycling to a friend's house. I didn't remember exactly where he lived, but I got half way there, pulled out my phone and ... the charging cable had not been in right. It died. I asked a guy at a 7/11 if I could borrow his charging cable for 2 min. He asked where my friends where, and then told me to put my bike in his truck and he'd give me a ride. Dude was a Seattle Police Captain. Normal guy. Talked about how he shouldn't have bought a house; too much work and it was a money sink. He pointed it out to me on my way to my friend's. Just a little side unit. My friend, who is a Defence Attorney, said, "You're not suppose to start off the weekend in a cop car." I didn't! It was his personal truck! .. also my friend was super surprised he lived in Seattle; probably cause he had lived there a long time. Most Seattle cops cannot afford to live anywhere near the city or the districts they patrol. I am a minority, if that matters.