6 ms·

According to Apple software license agreements, yes, it is too much to ask. You can not legally run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware. But don't be sad, their new M

According to Apple software license agreements, yes, it is too much to ask. You can not legally run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware. But don't be sad, their new Mac Pro is fantastic.

benbristow 6y ago
It's also £5,499.00 in the UK (just under $7k USD). Not exactly ideal for hobbyists.
- zeptonix 6y ago
  That's only about 7 monitor stands, could be worse /s
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  I considered including a price tag (... and comes for only $6990 ), but decided against it for being too thick. I also think that using /s markers kinda kills the idea of sarcasm.
  - umvi 6y ago
    Poe's law is especially strong with Apple, /s is definitely needed unless you go over the top with praising the price.
    - 411111111111111 6y ago
      > unless you go over the top with praising the price most apple enthusiasts think that the price is spot on and in no way overblown. (i do not have an opinion on the matter as i neither own nor use apple devices) i dont think you can convey any point about apple in a sarcastic manner while omitting a /s tag. there are always people honestly believing the point you're stating sarcastically. this applies to both negative and positive statements
      - youngtaff 6y ago
        I use Apple gear and think it's mostly overpriced. I Need to buy a new MacBookPro and even though I can reclaim the VAT (sales tax) and it'll come out of corporate accounts the price makes me wince Oh and I'd like one without a touch bar but screwed on that front unless I go high end MacBook Air iPhone SE at £400 is pretty reasonably priced though and will be my next phone
  - msla 6y ago
    > I also think that using /s markers kinda kills the idea of sarcasm. Tone of voice (and tone of face) are both essential to convey sarcasm over rich channels, and both are lost over text. Now add Poe's Law. In short: Welcome to the wonderful world of autism! /s
- codemusings 6y ago
  And that's before the wheels.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
    But those wheels are the real marvel of precise engineering! You could never experience such a smooth roll before.
- ChrisRR 6y ago
  Not exactly ideal for many people. I've never spent more than £600 on a computer and never felt like I need to spend 10x that for any of my software development
schoolornot 6y ago
It's an unenforced provision of the license agreement. No attorneys are recommending it but it's happening. I wouldn't start your own CI firm with it though. Unlike Microsoft, Apple has no motives to send the BSA after anyone. Pretty sure they've only used them for egregious copyright violations like the commercial Hackintoshes.
- toyg 6y ago
  > Apple has no motives to send the BSA after anyone ... until your virtualization layer starts having a material impact on their precious hardware sales. You cannot build business-critical systems on contractual clauses being "unofficially unenforced".
  - WatchDog 6y ago
    Probably the majority of macOS CI/CD use cases are materially beneficial to apple. Most people just want to automate building software for macOS/iOS. Making it easy to produce software for their products, just strengthens their ecosystem.
    - _bxg1 6y ago
      It's almost like they should offer it themselves...
- rodgerd 6y ago
  Certainly Corellium are having a bad time.
0xEFF 6y ago
Attach an Apple USB keyboard to your ESXi host and you’re good to go.
user5994461 6y ago
The EULA says you can't run Mac OS on non Apple hardware? Pretty sure these terms are not enforceable in Europe so safe to ignore.
- dahfizz 6y ago
  I've always wondered why apple gets a pass on the kinds of anti competitive suits brought against google. Google gets fined Billions of dollars for preloading a web browser in Android, but it's fine for apple to completely monopolize their hardware and software ecosystems.
  - Leherenn 6y ago
    As far as I know, it's because they do not have partners. Chromium is competing with Samsung internet and others on Android, because several companies sell Android. So it's not fine for Google to force the choice. Apple is not competing with anyone else on iOS, you don't have a choice. As long as iOS does not have a monopoly in smartphones, they're in the clear.
    - dahfizz 6y ago
      Doesn't that seem a bit backwards? Google faces anticompetitive scrutiny because they created an open(ish) platform that others can compete on. But Apple goes all in on a walled garden where nobody even has the opportunity to compete with them. Doesn't that feel anticompetitive? I'm certainly no friend of Google and I'm not losing sleep over them getting fined. But it seems that Apple is just as much if not more anti competitive and anti consumer, but they get a pass because of what feels like a loophole.
      - Leherenn 6y ago
        Yeah, I don't really know, I'm not a lawyer. At the same time, it makes kinda sense. No company with a product has to allow competition in. GM doesn't have to allow BMW motors in their cars. When you join a market with a product, like Apple, then you don't have to allow competition in your product. When you create a market like Google did Android, then you to allow competition in that market. I think that's the key difference, product vs market.
alerighi 6y ago
I'm not sure that to run a CI you have to violate the Apple license. I mean most core components of macOS (the Darwin project) are actually open source, and thus can be built and used freely. And for a CI you don't need a GUI and other stuff, only the kernel and the compiler basically. So maybe it's possible to compile a version of Darwin so close to the real macOS that has the bare minimum to run the compiler to build and test software. Of course the problem are the SDK that you need to use to build most software, they are obviously proprietary, but does its license say that they can only be used to compile software on a real Mac?
- detaro 6y ago
  Yes, the ToS for the SDKs do say that.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  Almost none of the stuff that matters exists in the Darwin layer, though.
fulafel 6y ago
You can of course run the CI/CD system on Apple hardware just fine. You can even get colo hosted Apple hardware with a monthly payment Hetzner style from a few companies.
- GordonS 6y ago
  I used MacInCloud before Azure DevOps got hosted MacOS pipelines. I've no affiliation with them, but can recommend them. Never had any technical issues, and the one billing issue we had was sorted out quickly by their support people.

According to Apple software license agreements, yes, it is too much to ask. You can not legally run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware. But don't be sad, their new Mac Pro is fantastic.

benbristow 6y ago

It's also £5,499.00 in the UK (just under $7k USD). Not exactly ideal for hobbyists.

zeptonix 6y ago
That's only about 7 monitor stands, could be worse /s
Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
I considered including a price tag (... and comes for only $6990 ), but decided against it for being too thick. I also think that using /s markers kinda kills the idea of sarcasm.
- umvi 6y ago
  Poe's law is especially strong with Apple, /s is definitely needed unless you go over the top with praising the price.
  - 411111111111111 6y ago
    > unless you go over the top with praising the price most apple enthusiasts think that the price is spot on and in no way overblown. (i do not have an opinion on the matter as i neither own nor use apple devices) i dont think you can convey any point about apple in a sarcastic manner while omitting a /s tag. there are always people honestly believing the point you're stating sarcastically. this applies to both negative and positive statements
    - youngtaff 6y ago
      I use Apple gear and think it's mostly overpriced. I Need to buy a new MacBookPro and even though I can reclaim the VAT (sales tax) and it'll come out of corporate accounts the price makes me wince Oh and I'd like one without a touch bar but screwed on that front unless I go high end MacBook Air iPhone SE at £400 is pretty reasonably priced though and will be my next phone
- msla 6y ago
  > I also think that using /s markers kinda kills the idea of sarcasm. Tone of voice (and tone of face) are both essential to convey sarcasm over rich channels, and both are lost over text. Now add Poe's Law. In short: Welcome to the wonderful world of autism! /s
codemusings 6y ago
And that's before the wheels.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  But those wheels are the real marvel of precise engineering! You could never experience such a smooth roll before.
ChrisRR 6y ago
Not exactly ideal for many people. I've never spent more than £600 on a computer and never felt like I need to spend 10x that for any of my software development

schoolornot 6y ago

It's an unenforced provision of the license agreement. No attorneys are recommending it but it's happening. I wouldn't start your own CI firm with it though. Unlike Microsoft, Apple has no motives to send the BSA after anyone. Pretty sure they've only used them for egregious copyright violations like the commercial Hackintoshes.

toyg 6y ago
> Apple has no motives to send the BSA after anyone ... until your virtualization layer starts having a material impact on their precious hardware sales. You cannot build business-critical systems on contractual clauses being "unofficially unenforced".
- WatchDog 6y ago
  Probably the majority of macOS CI/CD use cases are materially beneficial to apple. Most people just want to automate building software for macOS/iOS. Making it easy to produce software for their products, just strengthens their ecosystem.
  - _bxg1 6y ago
    It's almost like they should offer it themselves...
rodgerd 6y ago
Certainly Corellium are having a bad time.

0xEFF 6y ago

Attach an Apple USB keyboard to your ESXi host and you’re good to go.

user5994461 6y ago

The EULA says you can't run Mac OS on non Apple hardware? Pretty sure these terms are not enforceable in Europe so safe to ignore.

dahfizz 6y ago
I've always wondered why apple gets a pass on the kinds of anti competitive suits brought against google. Google gets fined Billions of dollars for preloading a web browser in Android, but it's fine for apple to completely monopolize their hardware and software ecosystems.
- Leherenn 6y ago
  As far as I know, it's because they do not have partners. Chromium is competing with Samsung internet and others on Android, because several companies sell Android. So it's not fine for Google to force the choice. Apple is not competing with anyone else on iOS, you don't have a choice. As long as iOS does not have a monopoly in smartphones, they're in the clear.
  - dahfizz 6y ago
    Doesn't that seem a bit backwards? Google faces anticompetitive scrutiny because they created an open(ish) platform that others can compete on. But Apple goes all in on a walled garden where nobody even has the opportunity to compete with them. Doesn't that feel anticompetitive? I'm certainly no friend of Google and I'm not losing sleep over them getting fined. But it seems that Apple is just as much if not more anti competitive and anti consumer, but they get a pass because of what feels like a loophole.
    - Leherenn 6y ago
      Yeah, I don't really know, I'm not a lawyer. At the same time, it makes kinda sense. No company with a product has to allow competition in. GM doesn't have to allow BMW motors in their cars. When you join a market with a product, like Apple, then you don't have to allow competition in your product. When you create a market like Google did Android, then you to allow competition in that market. I think that's the key difference, product vs market.

alerighi 6y ago

I'm not sure that to run a CI you have to violate the Apple license. I mean most core components of macOS (the Darwin project) are actually open source, and thus can be built and used freely. And for a CI you don't need a GUI and other stuff, only the kernel and the compiler basically. So maybe it's possible to compile a version of Darwin so close to the real macOS that has the bare minimum to run the compiler to build and test software. Of course the problem are the SDK that you need to use to build most software, they are obviously proprietary, but does its license say that they can only be used to compile software on a real Mac?

detaro 6y ago
Yes, the ToS for the SDKs do say that.
heavyset_go 6y ago
Almost none of the stuff that matters exists in the Darwin layer, though.

fulafel 6y ago

You can of course run the CI/CD system on Apple hardware just fine. You can even get colo hosted Apple hardware with a monthly payment Hetzner style from a few companies.

GordonS 6y ago
I used MacInCloud before Azure DevOps got hosted MacOS pipelines. I've no affiliation with them, but can recommend them. Never had any technical issues, and the one billing issue we had was sorted out quickly by their support people.